Now that we know Tito will not be walking through that door, how about a separate thread for The Search.

Right now, I'm a bit clueless about who's available or possible. Current Red Sox coaches are probably out because of their association with the current mess.

That's unfortunate for DeMarlo, but hopefully for him it leads to other opportunities.

It does occur to me that simply being willing to consider interviewing might be some sort of qualification.

EDIT: Don Baylor?

I think the Sox need Dick Williams.

But from the tenor of most press reports I'm seeing, the Sox wouldn't hire even him.....if he were still with us.....because he was old school.

I think it will be somebody who feels as comfortable in a visor as he does in a cap

Do you think a numbers oriented manager can get the team pulling in one good direction?

Maybe it's just the antidote. Or not. I don't know. I'm just a fan who thinks numbers and instincts and credibility are all important.

OK, I did think of somebody.

Merloni.

im not sure the sox can find a mgr til they have some idea of this roster,a numbers geek would be a loser because of current make up and old school goes against theo and the rest of the minions.the choice of mgr if taken eary could tell uswhat hot stove will look like.

Ryne Sandberg
Dave Martinez
Scott Ullger

I agree.

Who were the problem players? Are they going to back? Are the problems the type that a new manager can fix, or only the type that he's going to have to "manage" in an ongoing fashion?

Without some insight into the clubhouse (real insight, not speculation and inferences and hearsay), it's hard to say that the team needs a disciplinarian, or a motivator, or a peacemaker, or a big personality.

That's the question they need to answer, though. The strategic part will work itself out. I don't think it requires any particular familiarity with run expectancy matrices to figure out what to do with this lineup. This isn't that kind of challenge.

if they are the reported suspects a disciplinarian may be required.im not sure where you find one.id like a cora,but with ortiz and tek as well as wake im not sure if that works.

Even from what's been reported, though:

Guys drinking beer in the clubhouse on their off days? I don't even know if that needs an all-out disciplinarian, but yes, that's a discipline issue.

Youk's negativity wearing on people? A disciplinarian doesn't solve that, only adds to the noise.

Guys not putting in enough time in the weight room or the video room or whatever else? That's more an issue of motivation than misbehavior. A disciplinarian is not necessarily a motivator.

The clubhouse forming cliques that don't hate each other per se, but just don't really associate with each other? Has nothing whatsoever to do with discipline.

so what helps,the issue that bothers me most is youk,he is an all star,homeground player we dont need crap attitude.there are issues but if i follow your train of thought than the stat geek type is still all thats needed.

Youk's attitude is that he's all in, and doesn't tolerate anything less from anybody else. That may come off as excessive, but it's not a crap attitude, it's a lack of emotional control. He can fix that. Youk's not a problem on a team that's functioning properly. If he was a problem to this team, I'm not so sure I place all the blame for that on Youk.

You do not follow my train of thought, then.

I am sure that John Henry wants a stat guy, I'm sure that to some degree Theo wants a stat guy. I don't think it matters enough to be at the top of the list.

You could hire the king of smallball Mike Scioscia, and he's not going to hit and run with David Ortiz, or send Adrian Gonzalez up there to bunt. He does that with Angels teams that also happen to suck at offense. Whether that approach has exacerbated or masked the Angels' offensive deficiencies over the years is an interesting discussion, but it doesn't apply here.

A stat guy may make some different strategic decisions, but unless that stat guy is a bumbling idiot, then even a stat guy knows that "Daniel Bard has a .120 OPS against in this situation" does not account for "Daniel Bard has pitched three times this week and also happens to be struggling with his release point." And even a non-stat guy, or a dead monkey for that matter, can piece together victories more often than not with this team if the individual players are performing anywhere near their capabilities.

My train of thought has nothing to do with any of that. My train of thought is: A disciplinarian can solve some types of clubhouse issues. A disciplinarian is exactly the wrong guy for some other types of issues. We do not know what the issues were. We do not know the extent of those issues. Treating all of the various issues as if they are a single problem is not going to get them the right guy for the job.

My train of thought is that the Sox FO knows exactly what the issues are.

My expectation is that the Sox FO will not spend one second looking for a manager who has a record of being good at stopping beer drinking during games, or a manager who has a record of being good at breaking up cliques, or a manager who has a record of monitoring the workout regimen of 25 players.

I expect that the Sox FO will not be waiting to read the Globe each day to learn what the details of the attitude problems were so they can look for a discipline expert in each of the detailed areas. I think the fact that the story...accurate or not... will dribble out in the press is 100% irrelevant to the decision the Sox FO needs to make

My hope is that the Sox will spend a lot of time looking for a manager who....in addition to having the requisite baseball and statistical acumen.....has a record of being effective at commanding respect from both highly paid superstars and young kids, and has a record of creating an atmosphere where the coaches and players...collectively....enforce habits that are most conducive to winning.

In short, like Tracey, I think the Sox need more than just a stat geek or a sly-fox strategist, or a combination of just the two.

Of course.

Although I am surprised that this would happen, it seems as though you may be missing my point.

Yes.

Of course. I agree.

I'm seeing very little daylight between these two trains of thought. Almost none, in fact.

And the problem is that the manager they need, the one who fulfills these requirements, is the one who just left.

If there's anyone else available who fits the description, I don't think he's been named yet.

What they really need to do is support whoever they hire. Lucchino's comments that he didn't understand the questioning of that support was absolutely pathetic. He's either a liar or dumber than dirt. And I'm pretty sure Princeton grads aren't in the latter category.

I'm of the opinion that the reason things got out of hand is because the incumbent was perceived to be a lame duck.

But of course this is an outsiders perception.

this may havebeen an issue for a while.

Give me 9 Kevin Youkilises. Please.

I'm not sure labeling Youk an easy target lets him off the hook. His attitude may be that he's all in and doesn't tolerate less from anyone else, or it may indeed be that he was a caustic presence and a bringer of negative energy to a 2011 clubhouse badly in need of positive vibes.

Those of us who weren't in the clubhouse will obviously never know for sure what went on there, and we sure as hell won't get clarity from reading the pages of the Globe or Herald. But I find it telling that the sportswriters pointing fingers in Youk's direction — Jackie M, Pete Abe, Chad Finn — are not normally known for being throwers of bombs and stirrers of shit.

Yes, that is telling. And of course I'm guessing based on very limited data.

And my guess is that any negative energy surrounding Youk may have been there and been noticed because it was in contrast to the complacent, entitled calm surrounding too many others.

point being that normalcheereleaders are not being subtle.its not thein te dugout stuff enthsiasm is good,but the negativity in the clubhouse.i agree with base,the right man for the job drove off in a black escalade fri,at least as we are today roster wise.

I'm not sure I'm ready to jump on the "9 Youks please" bandwagon.

I think he is sometimes overlooked - for example, I though he was deserved the MVP rather than Pedroia in 2008 and probably deserved to be an all star in 2011 without being an afterthought . BUT, I think such things get to him - and maybe happen to him - because he's kind of a p.i.t.a to be around sometimes. I think 1 Youk might be plenty of Youk. If he didn't wear the uni he does, I think his whining at the plate (despite his "keen eye", the little gameday box has many fewer arguments that Youk does), his faces in the dugout, and his seeming inability to take a joke would have him on my "players who are easy to dislike despite their talent" list.

I can't dislike him. He's done so much for this team, so much that is unappreciated. But, really, for me the one Youk we have is just the right amount of Youk.

he is a very good player,but if he impacts the clubhouse than he needs to be mannyed.thats a big if though.

In Youk's defense here, though:

The little Gameday box doesn't adjust its strikezone to an umpire's historical tendencies or the strike zone he's calling that day.

Sometimes Youkilis has a very good argument, and sometimes he has no argument at all – but I think if you're a batter who's relying on your strike zone judgment to allow you to go deep into counts, and the umpire can't make up his mind whether a given location is a ball or a strike, then that makes it a lot more difficult for you to do your job.

At any rate, arguing balls and strikes may be a function of the same basic personality trait that leads to other things that rub teammates the wrong way, but I don't think those arguments themselves are at the heart of the problem.

anti semitism?doubt it.

Youk speaks

Jackie mac is now discredited?Im not sure how to react to this,the bottom line i taht this org i in bad shape right now this just affirms it.

SI_JonHeyman:
Bobby v not a candidate in boston. Theo said to be eyeing others, including 2 w/ no MLB managing. #redsox

Heyman: the article behind the tweet

The bottom line is that there are many sides to every story and that just because it appears in the media from a fairly credible source doesn't mean it's 100% true.

And my bottom line, as a fan, is that I'd much rather have Youk than ARod playing third base on my team. JMHO, YMMV.

If I were forced to put money down, it'd be on:

Charington GM
Luvello Manager
Cather Pitching Coach

at this point te only thing i believe for sure is that curt young is gone.im close to be willing to put money on theo gone also,but im not there yet.

Tito will be on WEEI at 3PM today.

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP! :clap: :clap:

Tito to do ALCS color commentary for Fox. That should certainly be an improvement over Tim "STFU" McCarver.

Francona on WEEI

Ron Johnson let go

is tuck the only one thats safe?

You may have the situation pegged.

Even though Hale was a Tito guy, he's pretty well respected so he has a clear shot. The bench coach though is usually an associate of the manager because of the importance of working together. To some extent, that's the assistant manager.

I hope RJ's OK. What happened to his daughter was beyond imaginable and that must have taken a toll.

I'm sure that Ron will catch on someplace. To the Sox credit, they helped considerably with his daughters expenses as well as several players throughout baseball, most notably the MFY players. To some extent all of baseball is a family and they take care of each other, there are just some situations that rivalries become secondary.