Tek has been a topic all season. He's done. No, wait, he's hitting. Then there was some sort of injury (neck?) and he wasn't hitting or throwing, or even blocking as well as in the past.

For 2010, Victor is the starting catcher. The only question is will one of the options be picked up and will Tek be the backup?

Personally, I'd rather see him on the team as a coach. I most definitely don't want to see him on another team.

There may not really be a lot to say in this thread, but I thought it might be better to have a place for thoughts on Tek, even if it's only memories.

From Sox done, work to do


Catching
Although the catching position was one of the most talked-about last offseason, it won’t be this year. With the Sox assured of picking up Martinez’s $7.5 million option for 2010, he will be the starting catcher.

There is also potential for both sides to begin discussing a long-term deal.

“Victor is about as good as you’re going to get,’’ Epstein said. “We’re really happy with him, on and off the field, his leadership, his ability, his desire to work with the pitching staff. Ultimately it’s [Terry Francona’s] call, but we’ve discussed it enough to know that he’s going to catch a lot next year, and then we’ll see what happens from there.’’

Varitek has a club option and a player option for next season. Although the $5 million club option is almost certain not to be picked up, Varitek could accept the $3 million player option, and return as the backup. Epstein said he has not yet talked with Varitek, and declined to comment on the situation because of that.

“He’s definitely one of those guys I’d love to see back,’’ Beckett said. “I think even if the transition starts, like it started at the end of the year, I think that there’s a lot of things that a lot of people can learn from him.

“Him being around, it’s never a bad thing. He’s so great with young guys. He knows how to run a clubhouse. That’s why he wears that ‘C’ on his chest.’’

While it was tough on my heart to see Tek on the bench in the playoffs, my head knew it was the right move.

I'll second Off's opinion that Tek would be a great addition as a coach. His demeanor in the dugout in the series was one of a coach. The question will be if he BELIEVES he can still contribute as a player somewhere.

My hope is that he looks at the last 2.5 years objectively and decides that his birth certificate and catching have conspired to end his career. My belief is that the jackass on his shoulder (Boar-Ass) will convince him to tell the Sox he wants to play. The result will be Tek playing for the Royals or some other bottom feeder next year.

C'mon Tek, you'll always be a Red Sox. Make you're last decision as captain to shitcan your agent and sign on as a coach.

From your fingers to Tek's ears... :kneeling:

Right on!

The conclusion is in escapable.Tek needs to stay as a coach for this team.

The man is going to make a damn fine pitching coach someday. Why not get him started along that path next year?

This is not a challenge, just a sincere question.

Why do we think Tek is destined to be a pitching coach?

He is good at understanding his pitchers' strengths and weaknesses and can call a good game. But being a good pitching coach is more about pitching mechanics according to my experience.

Has Tek said he wants to be a pitching coach? Have professional commentators predicted that? Can we think of other former catchers who are MLB pitching coaches?

Dave Duncan comes immediately to mind without even thinking about it. Think Terry Steinbach is doing it somewhere as well, at least i thought I heard that.

Good one coming up with Duncan.

I still think it is an unusual career path, but Tek could break the mold.

(You also don't see many former stars as pitching coaches, because players who were in the limelight in their prime often find the tedium of checking charts, film, and stopwatches...which is the bane of pitching coaches....to be a grind)

Let's watch this one

In a sense though, Billy, isn't that what Tek does prior to every game? He, more than any other player on the field, needs to do a tremendous amount of research to know the oppositions' hitters, his own pitchers strengths and weaknesses, how they match up against particular hitters... As far as mechanics, he's obviously not a pitcher, so he doesn't know the job from the personal experience, but catchers are often the first to notice if something is off with a pitcher's delivery or mechanics, no? I honestly don't know if he would make a good pitching coach or not, but if he didn't wish to go that route I would doubt it would be due to a reluctance to deal with the tedium of the job.

I'd like to hope we'll see him as a manager some day - what is the path he would need to take to get there?

I just wonder if pride will get the better of him again this off season. It will be interesting, and perhaps sad, to watch.

Bench coach would be the more usual path.

A few things.

Even if Tek were to accept the $3m option, he'd be released. I think Tek knows that or at least will be told that. To me, he's not the kind of man that would want that as his legacy.

A catcher would normally start as the "bullpen coach". The bullpen coach gets the relievers ready and is the eye for the pitching coach and he also usually coaches the catchers in general. In the Red Sox case, Gary Tuck is generally considered to be the finest in the business and would therefore be unlikely to be replaced. In terms of pitching coach, Teks strengths would serve him well but there's a big difference between knowing how to call a game and teaching a pitcher things like the nuances of motion. Those nuances are far and away the most important aspect.

To me, the ideal scenario would be for Tek to take on a role as advisor to the organization's catchers. His experience would be invaluable to everybody. Even VMart as experienced as he is has said that Tek whas been more than cooperative and that he's learned a lot from him.

Note that I said 'organization's'. I'm thinking minor leaguers for the most part. He could rove from level to level imparting his knowledge at all levels. Theo is a free thinker that usually makes decisions based on the long term rather than the present. I don't think that scenario is out of the question.

The real question here though is Tek. Does he want to retire ? As I said in other threads, he'd still be very useful to a team that had a young feature catcher and developing pitching staff like Baltimore, who probably doesn't have 2010 aspirations but are on the verge of breaking out. Can you imagine the long term benefits to Matt Weiter, certainly easily worth $3-4m to the Orioles.

The Sox current organizational scheme as I perceive it is that Gary Tuck probably advises Mike Hazen the Director of Minor League Operations. We have a former catcher managing the Salem club, (Epperson) and if you look at the player histories, you will see that ALL upper level catchers have spent significant time with Epperson.

What we have in our organization and MY OPINION of their futures.

Kottaras OK bat but will never be a good defensive catcher because he lacks mobility. He has the arm strength but that lack of mobility causes him to have a slow pop time. Base runners will always steal against George. His future is as a backup catcher and pinch hitter on a non contending team. Sox have no options on George so they either have to use him, trade him or lose him.

Dusty Brown. Dusty is already an experienced very good defensive catcher. Dusty's biggest drawback is that given his age and track record he's unlikely to ever hit at the major league level and he's not good enough defensively to overcome that even in a backup role except for a non contender. Still has 2 remaining years of options so he's likely to be the taxi squad Pawtucket catcher for those two years. Dusty would be major league average or slightly better in terms of base runners and because of that and the Sox situation of having a below average feature catcher (VMart), will be given a shot this coming spring. There are a lot of Dusty Browns in baseball.

Mark Wagner. Dusty Brown with a little more potential in his bat. Should have another year at Pawtucket to get his bat ready, however, his defence is major league ready. Wagner has a stronger arm than Brown and projects to be a better defensive catcher with experience. His future is platoon catcher on a non contender or backup catcher on a team like the Red Sox. Because of the Sox situation, he'll be given a shot this spring but really needs a year at Pawtucket to develop. For Wagner and all the rest of the catchers the Sox have all their option years remaining.

For all of the following, the only way they will see Boston in 2010 is on a postcard. All catchers, regardless of talent, need at least one year at AA or above because that's the first level that they are catching pitchers that are capable of executing a game plan. It's a skill that is not automatic, it is learned.:

Luis Exposito (Expo). Expo is the highest level catcher we have that projects to be an above average feature catcher at the major league level both offensively and defensively. He has excellent arm strength, good mechanics and a decent gap power bat. He needs experience. Career wise, he projects to be a better defensive catcher than Tek in his prime (intangibles aside) but won't have Tek's bat. He'll likely be above average but not all star caliber. He's expected to be at Portland (AA) for the entire year. He's still considered to be somewhat raw. Very personable, fluently bi-lingual and is a clubhouse leader that studies the game.

Tim Federowicz (Fedex). Tim projects to be an excellent all around defensive catcher with a quick release arm that picks off several runners. His bat is the question. He tore up A ball pitchers but struggled when promoted to A+. He's out of the SEC in college so, the A+ pitchers he faced were on average roughly equivalent to the college pitching he faced. He'll likely spend the majority of the season under the tutelage of Epperson unless his bat catches on fire. Too early to guess at a likely career path because of the bat but he is likely to make the majors in some capacity around 2012.

Oscar Perez. Distant (age 17) hope for the next Pudge. He's in international free agent signing that has the tools to become an all star caliber catcher on both sides of the plate. Being realistic for every 10 players with the tools at that age, only 1 will ever reach their potential and only 2 others will ever see a major league game. If he makes it and odds are he won't, it'll be four or five years or more before you see him in Boston. There are also a whole slew of Oscar Perez redux candidates at the lower levels and in the Dominican Summer League who's future is totally unknown.

Others: Ryan Lavarnway, Jon Still, Ty Weeden, etc,etc,etc. All considered to be excellent hitters that will probably never catch a major league game because they generally lack the athleticism to even be marginally acceptable. Their best hope is third string catcher/ first baseman/DH. Note: It might be a bit premature to classify Lavarnway there but to me, it's the most likely scenario. The entire minor leagues are loaded with catchers like these.


One additional note regarding a comment in another thread that it's about time we drafted a good catching candidate (ghost I think). That's unrealistic unless you want to have a serious bad season at the major league level. Catchers with two way skill sets NEVER make it past the 10th pick of the first round.


EditADD: One other catcher of interest is Carson Blair. Carson was drafted as a second baseman with a big bat. He features good athleticism and a strong arm. The problem though was that he's going to be a big boy and would likely never have major league 2B range so, the Sox have converted him this past season. It'll be a while before anybody really knows, catching isn't the easiest position to learn. He'll likely spend a few years at rookie ball and at the Sox training facility in Ft. Myers.

Great post. Just a great analysis.

I'd not at all be surprised if Tek were offered a coaching position (or already has been).

However, it wouldn't surprise me if he arranges to return to the Sox someday after one last stab as a MLB catcher perhaps in a mentor position.

My prediction: The options aren't discussed publicly much (even with Boras as his agent) and something is worked out behind the scenes. Tek returns for one season as a backup and spends a lot of time sitting next to Francona.

My only problem with that scenario is that VMart is not a young guy and that catching a full season load of 130 games is highly unlikely and to do so would likely degrade his offensive performance. 100 games is much more likely with the other games at 1B or DH. That means the back up catcher will have to catch 60+ games and I don't think Tek is a good enough catcher anymore to do that. Is why I want a defensive catcher as the back up, especially one that can hold the running game in check. It's been a while since VMart has caught a full season of games.

Btw, SSA, our Rockies are another example of a team that Tek would be perfect for. How would you like a year of Iannetta tutoring ???

You really have to hope that he sees that he's finished as an everyday player, and has too much pride to accept a role as a backup. I really want to see him remain a part of the organization and hope something is done to facilitate that.

What about Wil Myers, Max Stassi, & Tommy Joseph for this year's draft? They were ranked 16, 21, & 27 on Keith Law's Top 100 for for the 2009 draft class, and all were available at the Sox's first 2 draft picks (Stassi was available when the Sox passed on him for their third pick). Unless you are talking about college-level catchers, it looks to me that the Sox had an opportunity this year to pick up a good catcher... :huh:

Before I sound ungrateful, I do appreciate the extensive analysis you did on the Sox farm system and its catchers. Nice post. :thumbup:

It wouldn't surprise me.

Tek to the NL for a year or two as a mentor to a young catcher might be an option he's considering.

This would surprise me a lot.

NL teams need a lot of versatility on their rosters because of the use of pinch hitters for pitchers. I don't see the rationale of putting Tek's offensive output and defensive liabilities on the roster in place of a 13th pitcher or 4th hitter/baserunner.

Especially since a team could get most of Tek's bang for the buck (and a lot fewer of the latter) as a coach who doesn't take up a roster slot

First off, I saw nothing ungrateful about your question and thank you for the compliment. Your question is a very valid one and gets asked every year with different parameters. It does in every sport. Here's my answer AS I PERCEIVE IT but it won't really answer your question as you asked it. If the topic was Christianity I'd be saying; God works in mysterious ways or You just have to have faith or because it says so in the bible.

I was actually referring to the clear high end catchers like Weiters and Posey. Although one of the catchers you named was a first round pick, none of them were first round talents but more on that later.

First, some points to think about:

If you combined the amateur scouting resources of every nationwide company like PGCrosschecker (clearly the leader), ESPN & Baseball America, it would be a drop in a bucket when compared to the resources of the least major league team. They all freely admit this and all rely on second hand reports.

Amateur rankings tend to be comparative rankings of the present skillsets of the players evaluated. Major league internal rankings tend to be projections of future skill sets. This is a vital point to ponder. Just because a high school shortstop is the best position player in the country doesn't mean he has major league tools. He could easily be close to all he's ever going to be.

If you were to poll the scouting directors of every major league team as to who's scouting was the best in baseball, the Red Sox would be near unanimous winners. Theo revamped the entire system starting at the top with McLoud (Spelling) and Shipley and, Henry opened his wallet. It's the cornerstone of our entire player development system.

The Red Sox, like most teams and like football, typically draft the best player available considering all the variables regardless of position. This is particularly true with high schoolers because it's a lot more difficult to project a teams needs 5 or 6 years down the road rather than 2 or 3 with a college player. Some teams do that occasionally though but generally not the Red Sox. It's not their general draft philosophy.

In 20/20 hindsight (I didn't see it coming and nobody I remember did either), when Reymond Fuentes name went undrafted for the Sox first pick, it was a total no brainer for the Sox. Fuentes went somewhat under the radar because he grew up in Puerto Rico where the scouting services just don't have the resources to cover. Fuentes had worked out for the Sox and several other teams and just wowed everyone. His stock was the fastest rising in the entire draft. Center fielders who project to have speed,power and strong arms are a very very rare commodity. The Sox would have been foolish to pass him up and especially for any of the three you mentioned.

I was fully expecting the Sox to draft Stassi. I knew that they had scouted all three heavily and that as far as I know, only Stassi and Myers were invited to Boston for a look-see. So Joseph was for whatever reason not likely a candidate and he was gone by the second pick anyways.

When the Sox passed on Stassi on their second pick, I pretty much figured that he had already committed to a team. That happens all the time (thank you to my poster signature boy). This year as an example of just how strong the commitments can be, Miles Head was drafted and signed by the Sox in the 26th round. Miles was receiving draft day calls starting in the second round and was turning them down. As it turns out the A's signed Stassi and he is from Northern California which is probably not coincidental.

I'm totally speculating here with Myers as to what happened. ML teams were all over the board with the best position for him. In high school, he had more experience as a 3B than as a catcher. I believe that he wanted to catch and agreed to terms with a team that promised to draft him as a catcher (Kansas City).

MY bottom line, I have much more faith in the Red Sox scouting department than I do in my own opinion or of any rating service. They will be right a whole lot more often than I would and a whole lot more often than the regurgitating analysts.

By "it wouldn't surprise me" I mean "if it happens I wouldn't be totally blown away in shock".

I still think your scenario is more likely.

Love the wording on this Google AD that'll probably not be there when you look:



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Say what ????

Sounds like maybe they want to fix our dirty water. :rofl:

so ... does anyone else see the Ron Mills to Astro's as an opening to reshuffle the current coaching staff to make room for Tek somewhere in the coaching staff????

you are a little behind us jeri.i think it would be great :YAHOO: :cheers: :thumbup:

I compare this possibility to my own life experience. Would I go back to my previous employer in a lesser role than I had after essentially being removed from my position for someone who was percieved able to do a better job than I..Hmm..not for a couple years I think and not before I give my absolute best shot at utilizing my skills at the level I know I can with a different organization.

So, if I am Tek, I want to keep playing and if I can't, I want to get a way for awhile before I show up in a new capacity.

If I look at it from the Sox perspective, catching is not coaching and I want experienced coaches. So, maybe I would start Tek out as a minor league coach with a longer term plan that gets him in Boston within 3-5 years.

Old Faithful thus thinks Tek coaching is not in the cards for 2010 at the minimum.

Good points, Old. I was also thinking he'd need at least a year in the minor leagues understanding how to coach players. He's got a great mind for analysis & Tek-nique, but Jason does need seasoning to transition properly from player to coach.

On a tangent from this: wouldn't it be fun as heck to see Millar as the new bench coach? That would be fun, if only for the antics he would start. :weg:

Brad Mills???

yeah.. thats him...

I had a teacher named Ron Mills.. i get so confused lately :confused: old age setting in :Tekila:

millar coach :rofl:

I could not possibly disagree with this analysis more.


Tek Issues

I think he'll be superb in the backup role and an asset to the coaching staff when he's not on the field. And this article is insulting to Victor and Josh. Victor seems to be quite capable of assuming the leadership role and has no reason be threatened by Tek's presence. Josh will either benefit by having Tek catch his starts or learn to adjust. He knows he's going to pitch longer than Tek is going to catch.

If we had Joe Mauer the Second waiting in the wings, that could be an issue. But with all due respect to Wagner et al, we don't.

I can't fathom why Gasper would write this crap.

I just read that a few minutes ago.

The best I can tell is that Gasper is operating on some sort of crazy assumption that if Varitek hadn't chosen to return, Victor Martinez would be catching 162 games next year.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly disagree with his early thesis. The thing is, he refutes his own statements about Martinez meshing well when his last paragraph admits that Martinez was behind the plate when Buchholz emerged as a true frontline starter, and had a seamless transition with Lester. Also, he seems to forget that Martinez was behind the plate for the last 2 AL Cy Young winners, yet somehow Varitek is markedly superior in the unquantifiable realm of game-calling.

No kudos for you, Chris. :nono:

It assumes:
1) Martinez is slightly paranoid and/or has shaky confidence.
2) Varitek doesn't understand that he's no longer capable of what he was five years ago.
3) That everyone (players, fans, etc.) believes the catcher is the most important factor of a pitcher's success, which is something I really believe has been blown way out of proportion.
4) That the Sox are not a professional club in general.

Give the kid credit for trying... He's got a deadline and has to come up with something compelling.
He got the compelling part right, but this is just not at all probable.

Best catching 1-2 combo in the leaugue prior to this was likely Napoli and Mathis with the Angels. They find a way to make it all work and I have to believe the Sox will...

Jason made the choice with his eyes wide open and his character on the field and in the clubhouse tell me he will be the consumate team player and mentor...

If you enlarge gaspars ears a little you have a teenage barack obama.i cant escape him anywhere :rofl:

:patonhead:

Could be worse, Tracey. He could resemble our previous president. :duel:

As to the article, I thought Gasper was way off base here as well. I see Tek catching 40 games, hopefully when the other team is throwing their lefty. With the relationship they already had and with Tito and Farrell overseeing things, I see no issues. Varitek has made a ton of money in recent years. He knew before he accepted that he was going to be the backup. If he didn't want this situation, he would not have chosen it.

I agree with everything you wrote here, Offbase. I almost didn't read the link, because reading through all of the posts about the article, and I trust the opinions UoTM.
Who is this kids? He is totally off here.
I am glad that Tek is back exactly as it is. I'm hoping that he ends up coaching for the Sox, at least that he retires in a Red Sox uniform.
I'm not sure why the writer thinks that he should head to another team . I find it undignified when a beloved player who's talents hae waned due to age, injury or whatever, goes to another team for more money, or to try to play again the way he used to. Tek can contribute at this point and retire with dignity . I would be very proud of our Captain if he does.

Whatever happened to checking the facts?

Martinez has stated numerous times that Tek has been nothing but supportive to him, offering advise, helping him with the player analysis and has been a good mentor to him.

All this ends up to be is a "will he /should he give up the "C" "

If you watched any of the post Martinez games , if Tek wasn't catching he was sitting on the top step or next to Tito...

I call it "on the job training" :toocool: