View Full Version: To spend or not to spend

Uponthemonster > 2008-09 Hot Stove Discussions > To spend or not to spend


Title: To spend or not to spend
Description: Should Theo and the Sox stand pat?


tracey - November 28, 2008 07:51 PM (GMT)
The tony mazz article got me to thinking a little more about whether or not the red sox should go after Tex or anyother major free agent,or stand pat.The ecconomy is an issue i think ill pass on here,its far too complicated to go in here.id rather stick to a debate based on baseball merits.The issues are are out in the open,to big primary cogs tto a productive offense both coming off age,declining performance and injury cause the sox to look at spending big dollars for Tex and the need for a fith starter with the departures of Byrd,Colon and curt schilling.Complicating this is the massive dissapointment that was clay buckholtz and the emergence of masterson as one of the best mid relief pitchers in the game.The pitching for me is kind of easy,we likely can solve the issue internally or fairly cheaply,we dont know if we need to shell out for lowe although id like yo have him.The greatest risk in my judgement is the offense issue,its just hard to imagine that both lowell and ortiz willcome back to what they were a couple of years ago.I come down on really going out to and getting tex,he is te type of player the sox can build around for a longtime and years from now we will look at this contract as a probable bargain.Fire away.

Offbase - November 28, 2008 10:09 PM (GMT)
Uh oh. Tracey has learned to start topics. :unsure:

JK, Trace, this is a good one. :weg:

One thing I've been wondering is this: if you have success you pick low in the draft and if you don't sign many free agents, you won't have many leaving after declining arbitration and signing elsewhere. So you don't get many early picks that way.

So how do you keep stocking the farm system? You can let your type A home growns go when they become free agent eligible I guess, but that weakens the team. Trades? I'm sure Theo has this figured out, but it will be interesting to see how this evolves over time.

Sox Sweep Again - November 29, 2008 07:19 AM (GMT)
Related, by Chad Finn:

The 20 most important members of the Red Sox organization.

"...Here's the deal. Peter Abraham, my friend (all right, my Facebook friend -- does that count?) who covers the Yankees for the Journal News in New York, wrote a blog post this morning listing, in order, the 20 most important members of the Yankees' organization as of today.

It was a fun read, entirely subjective, and thought-provoking. And since I remain in a turkey-induced haze today and completely whiffed on coming up with original ideas, I figured it might be cool to apply the same concept to the Red Sox. So here you go.

I'll follow Peter's simple rule: The person must be a member of the Red Sox organization right now. (Sorry, Captain Tek, a.k.a. The Currently Unemployed Omnipotent Gritty Gutty Game-Calling Savant.) Players, scouts, executives, and even Wally the Green Monster are eligible for our list. You can even include inanimate objects (Don Orsillo) if you so desire. But no gastropods. (Sorry, Dale.)

Again . . . this is subjective, and purposefully vague on guidelines. Feel free to tell me, in your usual gentle way, who I missed or who should be higher or lower. As always, I reserve the right to change my mind. Let's go . . .

1. John Henry: Because in these economic times, the dude who signs the checks gets top billing, that's why...
"


tracey - November 29, 2008 12:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Offbase @ Nov 28 2008, 05:09 PM)
Uh oh. Tracey has learned to start topics. :unsure:

JK, Trace, this is a good one. :weg:

One thing I've been wondering is this: if you have success you pick low in the draft and if you don't sign many free agents, you won't have many leaving after declining arbitration and signing elsewhere. So you don't get many early picks that way.

So how do you keep stocking the farm system? You can let your type A home growns go when they become free agent eligible I guess, but that weakens the team. Trades? I'm sure Theo has this figured out, but it will be interesting to see how this evolves over time.

Base dont be nervous on my new found skill,but shockingly ive wrestled with the issue ever since 2005 as ive gotten to sort of understand the scope of the sox scouting and farm sytempilosphicly im on board that free agent sighnings should be for needs not addressed by the farm,,,,however does Tex solve a need and does he longterm help the ox in terms of longterm payroll.Mannys 19 mil was actually a prety good deal this year.The other problem for me is im negative trading good prospects.

Offbase - November 29, 2008 03:38 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Sox Sweep Again @ Nov 29 2008, 02:19 AM)
Related, by Chad Finn:

The 20 most important members of the Red Sox organization.

"...Here's the deal. Peter Abraham, my friend (all right, my Facebook friend -- does that count?) who covers the Yankees for the Journal News in New York, wrote a blog post this morning listing, in order, the 20 most important members of the Yankees' organization as of today.

It was a fun read, entirely subjective, and thought-provoking. And since I remain in a turkey-induced haze today and completely whiffed on coming up with original ideas, I figured it might be cool to apply the same concept to the Red Sox. So here you go.

I'll follow Peter's simple rule: The person must be a member of the Red Sox organization right now. (Sorry, Captain Tek, a.k.a. The Currently Unemployed Omnipotent Gritty Gutty Game-Calling Savant.) Players, scouts, executives, and even Wally the Green Monster are eligible for our list. You can even include inanimate objects (Don Orsillo) if you so desire. But no gastropods. (Sorry, Dale.)

Again . . . this is subjective, and purposefully vague on guidelines. Feel free to tell me, in your usual gentle way, who I missed or who should be higher or lower. As always, I reserve the right to change my mind. Let's go . . .

1. John Henry: Because in these economic times, the dude who signs the checks gets top billing, that's why...
"

That was a good list ... though I would have put John Farrell even higher.

HomeHalf - November 29, 2008 04:50 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Offbase @ Nov 29 2008, 11:38 AM)
QUOTE (Sox Sweep Again @ Nov 29 2008, 02:19 AM)
Related, by Chad Finn:

The 20 most important members of the Red Sox organization.

"...Here's the deal. Peter Abraham, my friend (all right, my Facebook friend -- does that count?) who covers the Yankees for the Journal News in New York, wrote a blog post this morning listing, in order, the 20 most important members of the Yankees' organization as of today.

It was a fun read, entirely subjective, and thought-provoking. And since I remain in a turkey-induced haze today and completely whiffed on coming up with original ideas, I figured it might be cool to apply the same concept to the Red Sox. So here you go.

I'll follow Peter's simple rule: The person must be a member of the Red Sox organization right now. (Sorry, Captain Tek, a.k.a. The Currently Unemployed Omnipotent Gritty Gutty Game-Calling Savant.) Players, scouts, executives, and even Wally the Green Monster are eligible for our list. You can even include inanimate objects (Don Orsillo) if you so desire. But no gastropods. (Sorry, Dale.)

Again . . . this is subjective, and purposefully vague on guidelines. Feel free to tell me, in your usual gentle way, who I missed or who should be higher or lower. As always, I reserve the right to change my mind. Let's go . . .

1. John Henry: Because in these economic times, the dude who signs the checks gets top billing, that's why...
"

That was a good list ... though I would have put John Farrell even higher.

I would have also put Youk higher and - gulp, I cannot believe I am typing this - Papi lower. Don't judge me. :unsure:

tracey - November 29, 2008 05:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (HomeHalf @ Nov 29 2008, 11:50 AM)
QUOTE (Offbase @ Nov 29 2008, 11:38 AM)
QUOTE (Sox Sweep Again @ Nov 29 2008, 02:19 AM)
Related, by Chad Finn:

The 20 most important members of the Red Sox organization.

"...Here's the deal. Peter Abraham, my friend (all right, my Facebook friend -- does that count?) who covers the Yankees for the Journal News in New York, wrote a blog post this morning listing, in order, the 20 most important members of the Yankees' organization as of today.

It was a fun read, entirely subjective, and thought-provoking. And since I remain in a turkey-induced haze today and completely whiffed on coming up with original ideas, I figured it might be cool to apply the same concept to the Red Sox. So here you go.

I'll follow Peter's simple rule: The person must be a member of the Red Sox organization right now. (Sorry, Captain Tek, a.k.a. The Currently Unemployed Omnipotent Gritty Gutty Game-Calling Savant.) Players, scouts, executives, and even Wally the Green Monster are eligible for our list. You can even include inanimate objects (Don Orsillo) if you so desire. But no gastropods. (Sorry, Dale.)

Again . . . this is subjective, and purposefully vague on guidelines. Feel free to tell me, in your usual gentle way, who I missed or who should be higher or lower. As always, I reserve the right to change my mind. Let's go . . .

1. John Henry: Because in these economic times, the dude who signs the checks gets top billing, that's why...
"

That was a good list ... though I would have put John Farrell even higher.

I would have also put Youk higher and - gulp, I cannot believe I am typing this - Papi lower. Don't judge me. :unsure:

no, agree at this point youk is more valuble than papihistoriclythere may or not be a more impotant player in recent sox history and that could be for another thread.

Tomsoxfan - November 30, 2008 03:32 PM (GMT)
I think Teixeira is an offensive 'anchor' and with a history of durability that makes him worthy of a 7yr/150mil deal from the Sox much moreso than any pitcher's shoulder. I think the Sox have 4 spots in the rotation set and with Masterson, Bowden and Bucholz all seemingly ready or soon to be ready to start if needed that we have depth at that position that can make us feel comfortable in bypassing the pricey FA's.

The thing that I wonder is what does that type of contract do for Youkilis? His numbers were awfully similar to Teixeira's last year. As was his fielding. It's going to make extending him pricier too.

To spend or not to spend? I think the Sox should spend. You need to be aggressive in reinvesting and getting younger and they have the money coming off the books. I think extending Jason Bay and going after Teixeira addresses areas of organizational weakness and gets you younger than you were a year ago, keeps the offense going and allows you to keep drafting pitchers :)

PASOX65 - November 30, 2008 05:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Tomsoxfan @ Nov 30 2008, 11:32 AM)
I think Teixeira is an offensive 'anchor' and with a history of durability that makes him worthy of a 7yr/150mil deal from the Sox much moreso than any pitcher's shoulder.  I think the Sox have 4 spots in the rotation set and with Masterson, Bowden and Bucholz all seemingly ready or soon to be ready to start if needed that we have depth at that position that can make us feel comfortable in bypassing the pricey FA's.

The thing that I wonder is what does that type of contract do for Youkilis?  His numbers were awfully similar to Teixeira's last year.  As was his fielding.  It's going to make extending him pricier too.

To spend or not to spend?  I think the Sox should spend.  You need to be aggressive in reinvesting and getting younger and they have the money coming off the books.  I think extending Jason Bay and going after Teixeira addresses areas of organizational weakness and gets you younger than you were a year ago, keeps the offense going and allows you to keep drafting pitchers :)


This isn't necessarily a response to Tomsox post. He's just last in line.

The economy really isn't an issue for the Red Sox moving forward. They are, as is Fenway Park, a highly successful New England institution that has turned into a major MLB destination for fans of the team and otherwise. As a result the dollars generated by the two will not dry up or suffer greatly. Advertisers will continue to pour money into getting ther company name attached to the organization. The reality of the Red Sox is that they, along with the Cubs are the only two teams in MLB that have early 20th century ball parks they play in and that lends to keep both clubs in great financial standing due to their historical attraction. The other clubs playing in more modern stadiums not named the New York Yankees may very well feel the pinch of the economy. But the three teams named here will feel little, if any effect at all from a sagging economy. So, I disagree strongly with Mazz' point of view that even the Red Sox have a "saturation point" and interest in the team is hardly waning.

That being said I believe the Red Sox should spend this off-season. The Red Sox situation on Teixeira seems to be pretty clear to me. If the Sox want him he is theirs! I have no issue with offering him a 10 yr, $22 - $24 million per contract. They have that money available with Manny, Schilling, etc coming off the books. And regardless of how effective Papi is in 2009 I believe he is on his last contract with the Sox. Therefore Teixeira becomes the Red Sox anchor bat moving forward. With his age and health history I believe he would be doing considerable damage in Fenway Park for many years to come. Purchasing his services is an investment in the teams success moving forward

And speaking of "many years to come"... The Red Sox are positioned nicely for the next few years with so many key players still under the Red Sox control for the next few years. Obviously guys like Bay, Youk, Pedroia, Papelbon and Beckett need to be extended or signed long term. But none of them are what you would call "unaffordable" to the Red Sox moving forward. Decisions of this nature are kept in balance. That means while everyone thinks certain guys are going to need big raises in the future that is largely taken care of by other contracts coming off the books. Hey, don't forget that in the next few years Drew, Lowell, Varitek (if he's resigned), Wakefield, Lugo and other monies come off the books. And don't forget the other nature of baseball. The Red Sox farm system is more than capable of generating young talent that might be a better alternative than what's currently on the field. So, those guys who are up for an extension might not even be worth a contract extension moving forward. It's all up for speculation.

The Red Sox are in a transition year currently IMO. Manny is gone and Papi is probably in his last contract with the Sox. You need a big bat to move past that highly successful era and Teixeira is that bat. Lowe is a reliable veteran arm that has health and big game experience on his side. Signing him allows a rational decisions to be made on the pitching staff moving forward and allows for continued development of the prospects to take place. Spending this year helps make the future much more secure.

tracey - November 30, 2008 07:00 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (PASOX65 @ Nov 30 2008, 12:55 PM)
QUOTE (Tomsoxfan @ Nov 30 2008, 11:32 AM)
I think Teixeira is an offensive 'anchor' and with a history of durability that makes him worthy of a 7yr/150mil deal from the Sox much moreso than any pitcher's shoulder. I think the Sox have 4 spots in the rotation set and with Masterson, Bowden and Bucholz all seemingly ready or soon to be ready to start if needed that we have depth at that position that can make us feel comfortable in bypassing the pricey FA's.

The thing that I wonder is what does that type of contract do for Youkilis? His numbers were awfully similar to Teixeira's last year. As was his fielding. It's going to make extending him pricier too.

To spend or not to spend? I think the Sox should spend. You need to be aggressive in reinvesting and getting younger and they have the money coming off the books. I think extending Jason Bay and going after Teixeira addresses areas of organizational weakness and gets you younger than you were a year ago, keeps the offense going and allows you to keep drafting pitchers :)


This isn't necessarily a response to Tomsox post. He's just last in line.

The economy really isn't an issue for the Red Sox moving forward. They are, as is Fenway Park, a highly successful New England institution that has turned into a major MLB destination for fans of the team and otherwise. As a result the dollars generated by the two will not dry up or suffer greatly. Advertisers will continue to pour money into getting ther company name attached to the organization. The reality of the Red Sox is that they, along with the Cubs are the only two teams in MLB that have early 20th century ball parks they play in and that lends to keep both clubs in great financial standing due to their historical attraction. The other clubs playing in more modern stadiums not named the New York Yankees may very well feel the pinch of the economy. But the three teams named here will feel little, if any effect at all from a sagging economy. So, I disagree strongly with Mazz' point of view that even the Red Sox have a "saturation point" and interest in the team is hardly waning.

That being said I believe the Red Sox should spend this off-season. The Red Sox situation on Teixeira seems to be pretty clear to me. If the Sox want him he is theirs! I have no issue with offering him a 10 yr, $22 - $24 million per contract. They have that money available with Manny, Schilling, etc coming off the books. And regardless of how effective Papi is in 2009 I believe he is on his last contract with the Sox. Therefore Teixeira becomes the Red Sox anchor bat moving forward. With his age and health history I believe he would be doing considerable damage in Fenway Park for many years to come. Purchasing his services is an investment in the teams success moving forward

And speaking of "many years to come"... The Red Sox are positioned nicely for the next few years with so many key players still under the Red Sox control for the next few years. Obviously guys like Bay, Youk, Pedroia, Papelbon and Beckett need to be extended or signed long term. But none of them are what you would call "unaffordable" to the Red Sox moving forward. Decisions of this nature are kept in balance. That means while everyone thinks certain guys are going to need big raises in the future that is largely taken care of by other contracts coming off the books. Hey, don't forget that in the next few years Drew, Lowell, Varitek (if he's resigned), Wakefield, Lugo and other monies come off the books. And don't forget the other nature of baseball. The Red Sox farm system is more than capable of generating young talent that might be a better alternative than what's currently on the field. So, those guys who are up for an extension might not even be worth a contract extension moving forward. It's all up for speculation.

The Red Sox are in a transition year currently IMO. Manny is gone and Papi is probably in his last contract with the Sox. You need a big bat to move past that highly successful era and Teixeira is that bat. Lowe is a reliable veteran arm that has health and big game experience on his side. Signing him allows a rational decisions to be made on the pitching staff moving forward and allows for continued development of the prospects to take place. Spending this year helps make the future much more secure.

some of the points that mazz pointed out for example street ticket sales,may have well been affected by what was going on in the finacial arena the AIG bail out the announced layoffs all over the finacial community and lets not forget that (ouch)election.

rominer - December 1, 2008 05:24 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (tracey @ Nov 30 2008, 11:00 AM)
some of the points that mazz pointed out for example street ticket sales,may have well been affected by what was going on in the finacial arena the AIG bail out the announced layoffs all over the finacial community and lets not forget that (ouch)election.

No doubt "street sales" were affected by the economy.

But let's keep in mind that:

1) Those street sales are irrelevant to the Red Sox bottom line.

2) Those street sales represent a 100%-1000% markup (maybe even more in some cases) on what are already the most expensive tickets in baseball. Those tickets become a luxury item much, much, much more quickly than tickets purchased directly from the team.

So, some combination of the economy and baseball factors (Sox have won twice, so there's not as much urgency; the team was wiped out by injuries; and it was the Tampa Bay Rays...not exactly a marquee matchup, then or, I suspect, ever) made people wake up to the fact that, yeah, $500 is probably a bit steep for a bleacher seat.

The economy has a long way to fall before $50 face value scares people off the way $500 does.

That's not to say that $50 won't make some people think twice, or even keep some people away altogether. But not enough that it should have any immediate impact on how the Sox do business. Long term? I don't know. I guess it depends on how willing people are to panic.

ThinMan - December 1, 2008 05:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rominer @ Dec 1 2008, 12:24 PM)
That's not to say that $50 won't make some people think twice, or even keep some people away altogether. But not enough that it should have any immediate impact on how the Sox do business. Long term? I don't know. I guess it depends on how willing people are to panic.

Tracey is pretty much always ready to panic. :raspberry: :VBG:

soxfaninnyc - December 1, 2008 06:24 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rominer @ Dec 1 2008, 12:24 PM)
No doubt "street sales" were affected by the economy.

But let's keep in mind that:

1) Those street sales are irrelevant to the Red Sox bottom line.

2) Those street sales represent a 100%-1000% markup (maybe even more in some cases) on what are already the most expensive tickets in baseball. Those tickets become a luxury item much, much, much more quickly than tickets purchased directly from the team.

So, some combination of the economy and baseball factors (Sox have won twice, so there's not as much urgency; the team was wiped out by injuries; and it was the Tampa Bay Rays...not exactly a marquee matchup, then or, I suspect, ever) made people wake up to the fact that, yeah, $500 is probably a bit steep for a bleacher seat.

The economy has a long way to fall before $50 face value scares people off the way $500 does.

That's not to say that $50 won't make some people think twice, or even keep some people away altogether. But not enough that it should have any immediate impact on how the Sox do business. Long term? I don't know. I guess it depends on how willing people are to panic.

The street price is a supply-demand question. The Red Sox home attendance reached its all-time high at 3,048,250 which was nearly a million more fans than attended the 1986 season. The Red Sox have set a new attendace record every season since 2000 (with the exception of 2005 when attendance was less than 20,000 off from its previous all time high). Demand is still very high for Red Sox tickets.

The supply side has grown since JH and LL took over the business operations. It could be that more Red Sox fans are able to get their fill of games at ticket window prices, instead of making the scalpers rich.

It could be that the economy is dampening demand. It could also be that supply is finally catching up with demand. It could also be as Rominer said that people don't get fired up for Red Sox-Rays the way they do for Red Sox-Yankees, Red Sox-Angels, or even Red Sox-Indians.

In any case, I don't see the Red Sox ticket revenues taking a bit hit due to the economy.

Merchandise? Probably something to watch out for. Do I really need that $75 sweatshirt, just like the one Tito wears in the dugout? Very discretionary spending and likely to drop. But overall, I don't foresee the Red Sox struggling to make payroll in 2009, even if payroll is extended to $160M or more.

rominer - December 1, 2008 07:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (soxfaninnyc @ Dec 1 2008, 10:24 AM)

The street price is a supply-demand question.

Of course it is.

But the "demand for tickets at a 1000% markup" and the "demand for tickets" are not one and the same.

And we're not just talking about a scarcity of tickets, but a scarcity of opportunities.

Would an obstructed view seat for the 2004 World Series have been worth $1500? That's well beyond affordable for most people...but you could still find a way to rationalize it. At that point, it had been a little while since the Red Sox had won a World Series.

In 2007? A little harder to rationalize, but there was the sense that 2004 was for the ghosts of our past, while 2007 was for us. There was probably the sense with a lot of people that "I didn't go for it in 2004, I'm not missing the chance again." And after that ALCS, there was a sense of inevitability to the World Series that made it seem like a safe investment.

2008, though? The economy already has people thinking twice before proceeding to run up frivolous credit card charges. And the big picture is that the Sox are going to be in the hunt almost every year for quite some time or at least that's what it feels like. So there just isn't that urgency of "this is my one and only chance to see the Sox in this situation."

So, at scalpers/brokers' inflated prices, the demand might not be there. That doesn't mean that the demand isn't there. That doesn't mean that, at the fixed face value price, the demand doesn't far, far exceed the supply. It just means that the brokers found that threshold at which not even high demand can sustain high prices.

I'm not worried about ticket brokers taking a hit. Good for them.

tracey - December 5, 2008 04:31 PM (GMT)
In yesterdays theo conference he sent up very mixed smoke signals on texiera,Im really wondering if they are gonna roll the dice with both lowell and ortiz and play the contracts out and hope that whatever is in the minor will be good and good immediately.High risk but could in the longterm ifit works could keep the sox longterm finacially very,very flexible and put the club back in the upper middle of the payrol scae down the line.Theo is like greenspan,hard to comprehend.

OhioSoxFan - December 5, 2008 08:05 PM (GMT)
I heard a rumor today from a non-Sox fan that the Sox were reportedly going after Sabathia? Anyone heard anything like that?

It's news to me if it's true.


ThinMan - December 5, 2008 08:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (OhioSoxFan @ Dec 5 2008, 03:05 PM)
I heard a rumor today from a non-Sox fan that the Sox were reportedly going after Sabathia? Anyone heard anything like that?

It's news to me if it's true.

That doesn't make any sense on any level. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that it isn't true.

ThinMan - December 5, 2008 08:37 PM (GMT)
Looks like a case of someone reading too much into Theo taking a meeting. Here's the rotoblurb:

A friend of CC Sabathia's told SI.com that the free agent has four offers on the table, with two coming from mystery teams.
The Yankees and Brewers are the only teams known to have made offers. The Angels, Giants, Dodgers are believed to have some interest, but it's possible none of them have made offers yet. The Red Sox are reportedly planning to meet with Sabathia at the winter meetings next week, but it's considered unlikely that they'll put in a bid to rival the Yankees' six-year, $140 million package.
Source: SI.com

tracey - December 5, 2008 10:47 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ThinMan @ Dec 5 2008, 03:37 PM)
Looks like a case of someone reading too much into Theo taking a meeting. Here's the rotoblurb:

A friend of CC Sabathia's told SI.com that the free agent has four offers on the table, with two coming from mystery teams.
The Yankees and Brewers are the only teams known to have made offers. The Angels, Giants, Dodgers are believed to have some interest, but it's possible none of them have made offers yet. The Red Sox are reportedly planning to meet with Sabathia at the winter meetings next week, but it's considered unlikely that they'll put in a bid to rival the Yankees' six-year, $140 million package.
Source: SI.com

its a custum for teams like the sox and the mfy to "get involved"the yankees met with tex today .

HomeHalf - December 5, 2008 11:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ThinMan @ Dec 5 2008, 04:28 PM)
QUOTE (OhioSoxFan @ Dec 5 2008, 03:05 PM)
I heard a rumor today from a non-Sox fan that the Sox were reportedly going after Sabathia?  Anyone heard anything like that?

It's news to me if it's true.

That doesn't make any sense on any level. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that it isn't true.

I'll bet you're right but I think it's in everyone's best interest except the Yankees for the world to believe it is true. :wacko:

billyoregon - December 5, 2008 11:02 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (HomeHalf @ Dec 5 2008, 04:01 PM)
QUOTE (ThinMan @ Dec 5 2008, 04:28 PM)
QUOTE (OhioSoxFan @ Dec 5 2008, 03:05 PM)
I heard a rumor today from a non-Sox fan that the Sox were reportedly going after Sabathia? Anyone heard anything like that?

It's news to me if it's true.

That doesn't make any sense on any level. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that it isn't true.

I'll bet you're right but I think it's in everyone's best interest except the Yankees for the world to believe it is true. :wacko:

It's on ESPN radio

tracey - December 5, 2008 11:04 PM (GMT)
Im not taking this seriouslyi cannot imagine that the sox are willing to pay the longterm contract for cc,of course they could offer a high dollar shorter term deal.

tracey - December 13, 2008 07:42 PM (GMT)
What happens to the sox if they do not sighn tex,as of now no offer has been made.I wonder if tex is not the target,its lowe,tek and smoltz.Dont forget smoltz had meaningful time in the pen lso as did Lowe.

hitdog042 - December 13, 2008 09:29 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (tracey @ Dec 13 2008, 02:42 PM)
What happens to the sox if they do not sighn tex,as of now no offer has been made.I wonder if tex is not the target,its lowe,tek and smoltz.Dont forget smoltz had meaningful time in the pen lso as did Lowe.

Nobody knows if an offer has been made or not. But if they do not get him, they have plenty of trading chips to acquire another bat.

tracey - December 13, 2008 10:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (hitdog042 @ Dec 13 2008, 04:29 PM)
Nobody knows if an offer has been made or not. But if they do not get him, they have plenty of trading chips to acquire another bat.

Theo values his kids a lot,i cannot imagine who would be availible that would entice him to deal his prospects.

ThinMan - December 13, 2008 10:17 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (tracey @ Dec 13 2008, 05:11 PM)
Theo values his kids a lot,i cannot imagine who would be availible that would entice him to deal his prospects.

Theo also trades his kids, when it's in his best interest to do so. Just ask Hanley Ramirez, Kelly Shoppach, David Murphy, Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen.

tracey - December 13, 2008 10:30 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ThinMan @ Dec 13 2008, 05:17 PM)
Theo also trades his kids, when it's in his best interest to do so. Just ask Hanley Ramirez, Kelly Shoppach, David Murphy, Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen.

One was the incredible deal for beckett and lowel another was a desparation move after damon split,the other was for an attempt for pitching.Ive know he will deal for pitching,but for everday players im nots ure to what lenghs he will go whe he is not desparate.

hitdog042 - December 14, 2008 01:23 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (tracey @ Dec 13 2008, 05:30 PM)
One was the incredible deal for beckett and lowel another was a desparation move after damon split,the other was for an attempt for pitching.Ive know he will deal for pitching,but for everday players im nots ure to what lenghs he will go whe he is not desparate.

He has never been opposed to trading players. This is the Red Sox. He will make a deal if he can't get what he wants in FA.

Plenty of teams out there that are interested in our many kids of value.

And no, he isn't desperate. But he also knows we need another big bat. We can't count on Lowell being back to normal. We don't know Ortiz will respond. We don't know if Youkilis can repeat his numbers.

We need a bat, and a good one.

tracey - December 14, 2008 02:32 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (hitdog042 @ Dec 13 2008, 08:23 PM)
He has never been opposed to trading players. This is the Red Sox. He will make a deal if he can't get what he wants in FA.

Plenty of teams out there that are interested in our many kids of value.

And no, he isn't desperate. But he also knows we need another big bat. We can't count on Lowell being back to normal. We don't know Ortiz will respond. We don't know if Youkilis can repeat his numbers.

We need a bat, and a good one.

Realisticl whats availible,the only rumoured bat was michael young,outside of him there were few rumours of guys being shopped.Outside of ss i trust theo,i just cant see what theother options are.

Sox Sweep Again - December 14, 2008 09:34 AM (GMT)
I'm thinking that we need to offer, and get at whatever cost, a Manny-2000 type deal for Teixeira.

Got. To.

:confused:

HomeHalf - December 14, 2008 05:37 PM (GMT)
Heard Angels have made an offer to Tex. Anyone hear anything?

QUOTE
Eight-year deal is believed to be worth $160 million, and the Red Sox are yet to be heard from.

ThinMan - December 14, 2008 05:40 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (HomeHalf @ Dec 14 2008, 12:37 PM)
Heard Angels have made an offer for Tex. Anyone hear anything?


The rumor mill says 8 years, $160 million. Of course the rumor mill is probably wrong.

PASOX65 - December 14, 2008 06:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (HomeHalf @ Dec 14 2008, 01:37 PM)
Heard Angels have made an offer to Tex. Anyone hear anything?


Offer to Teixiera

That offer was made on Tuesday at the winter meetings. And since we are just hearing about it this weekend that probably means the Angels offer isn't at the top of the heap. The details of the years and money are speculated and it sounds like the comments from the Angels owner are saying that they don't expect to make a significant jump from that offer. That probably means that someone (The Red Sox) made a considerably higher offer and the Angels might increase it slightly, but wouldn't go to the level of the highest offer.

Why do I think that?

Well, this all comes on the heels of Ken Rosenthal reporting on Wednesday night that the Red Sox have made significant progress in closing a deal with Teixeira. I had heard from by buddy with the Phillies on Thursday that they were hearing Boras had a deal in principal with the Red Sox with some minor issues to get ironed out. Since that time there have been no reports of teams upping their offers or that anyone else has jumped into the bidding. And that's excellent news for the Red Sox and probably means Boras and Theo have been keeping everything quiet while getting everything ironed out.

I still think Teixeira will be flying to Boston on Monday or Tuesday for a physical with an announcement coming on Wednesday or Thursday.

tracey - December 14, 2008 06:40 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (PASOX65 @ Dec 14 2008, 01:26 PM)
QUOTE (HomeHalf @ Dec 14 2008, 01:37 PM)
Heard Angels have made an offer to Tex. Anyone hear anything?


Offer to Teixiera

That offer was made on Tuesday at the winter meetings. And since we are just hearing about it this weekend that probably means the Angels offer isn't at the top of the heap. The details of the years and money are speculated and it sounds like the comments from the Angels owner are saying that they don't expect to make a significant jump from that offer. That probably means that someone (The Red Sox) made a considerably higher offer and the Angels might increase it slightly, but wouldn't go to the level of the highest offer.

Why do I think that?

Well, this all comes on the heels of Ken Rosenthal reporting on Wednesday night that the Red Sox have made significant progress in closing a deal with Teixeira. I had heard from by buddy with the Phillies on Thursday that they were hearing Boras had a deal in principal with the Red Sox with some minor issues to get ironed out. Since that time there have been no reports of teams upping their offers or that anyone else has jumped into the bidding. And that's excellent news for the Red Sox and probably means Boras and Theo have been keeping everything quiet while getting everything ironed out.

I still think Teixeira will be flying to Boston on Monday or Tuesday for a physical with an announcement coming on Wednesday or Thursday.

:kneeling: be right PA,now perhaps the smoltz one year dea and i think we are almost ready to go.Ive given up dealing or thinking about the catching.




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