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 Stomp and Thunderstomp in a challenge.
kris_kapsner
Posted: May 8 2012, 04:17 PM


Doombull


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I had a rule question pop up in one of my tournament games.

My gorebull bsb was locked into a challenge with an exalted champion bsb with the mark of khorne. He did a couple wounds to me and I did a couple wounds to him, which was enough to kill him. Then I tried to do my stomp attack and I was told that I couldn't do it since the model was already dead. That made sense to me. So, I didn't use the stomp for a potential over kill wound. But, I was just curious if we played it correctly.

I was also told that stomp could be used in a challenge but not thunderstomp. That didn't make much sense to me though. So, I thought I'd ask. If a treeman ancient or dragon rider or something is in a challenge, can't they thunderstomp in the challenge?

Just wanted to clarify these things.

Thanks.
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rothgar13
Posted: May 8 2012, 07:41 PM


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You played the Stomp right - once the guy is dead (and he died at I4), you're done attacking him.

As for the T-stomp, you most certainly can use it in a challenge.


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Stonefalcon
Posted: May 8 2012, 11:41 PM


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In the case of this challenge couldn't kris then use the gorebull stomp on the rank and file models?


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Gojiragor
Posted: May 8 2012, 11:50 PM


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QUOTE (Stonefalcon @ May 9 2012, 12:41 AM)
In the case of this challenge couldn't kris then use the gorebull stomp on the rank and file models?

No. Once you are in a challenge all attacks are against each other, dead or alive.


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Stonefalcon
Posted: May 8 2012, 11:52 PM


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ok, good to know.


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Hewhorocks
Posted: May 9 2012, 04:51 AM


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Curious can you challenge a transformed Shaman? He is still a character, no?
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Billy Ocean
Posted: May 9 2012, 05:52 AM


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This is an interesting question... his unit type changes into monster, because each of the arcane creatures is listed as such in the bestiary. But that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't a character. So I would guess that he can fight in a challenge (??)

Another interesting point to remember is that the FAQ states the wizard maintains his special rules when transformed, which is awesome for us with primal fury!! Turn into a chimaera and get 4D6 attacks with rerolls blink.gif thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by Billy Ocean on May 9 2012, 05:53 AM


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decker_cky
Posted: May 9 2012, 06:21 AM


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With Transformation you remain a character (and a wizard, which can be relevant).


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Toe Cutter
Posted: May 9 2012, 07:55 AM


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Does a challenge happen before everybody else fights or does it happen at the same initiative steps as everybody else?

If your beast banner bearer is killed by throgg in a challenge for example, do your gors (better initiative than throgg) then fight at S3 or do you they attack at S4?


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snowblizz
Posted: May 9 2012, 09:53 AM


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QUOTE (Toe Cutter @ May 9 2012, 07:55 AM)
Does a challenge happen before everybody else fights or does it happen at the same initiative steps as everybody else?

If your beast banner bearer is killed by throgg in a challenge for example, do your gors (better initiative than throgg) then fight at S3 or do you they attack at S4?

A challenge happens before everything else, mostly.

However it is *resolved* at I steps. So the Gor would still be+1S when hitting. IF your opponent tries to ague this, demand you do it in the correct steps. Wargor hits Throgg. Gors hit unit. Throgg hits wargor. Other Trolls hit. Or something like that.
Challenges are usually solved before or after everything else to make it easier since they are a separate combat really, but that's only convenience and does not change the rules.


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Toe Cutter
Posted: May 9 2012, 10:15 AM


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Thanks Snowblizz. We were uncertain and happy to play it either way to be honest. The unit was dead and the game lost by this point (the BSB wouldn't have been in a challenge otherwise) but I thought I'd check anyway. We decided it would be quite warhammery for the challenge to happen before any other combats between the mere rank and filers occurred but I'll discuss further next week.


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Fafa
Posted: May 9 2012, 01:49 PM


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Snowblizz's rigth - everything goes on I. Transformed shaman is character (and this is why he shouldn't charge alone - challenge from champion and he cannot refuse) and in theory is still wizard though it can be argued (cannot casts spells and I'm not sure about channelling). T-stomp works in challenges (eg. DElf on Dragon).
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sorberec
Posted: May 12 2012, 07:27 AM


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QUOTE (snowblizz @ May 9 2012, 09:53 AM)
Challenges are usually solved before or after everything else to make it easier since they are a separate combat really, but that's only convenience and does not change the rules.

I'd say that although the challenge attacks happen at I steps as normal, it makes sense to resolve the challenge first before rolling for the units.

The reasoning being, if one of the challengers confers a bonus to his unit, like a Warrior Priest, and if the other challenger has a higher I value and kills the Warrior Priest, the Priest's unit won't benefit from Hatred (assuming they're the same or lower I as the WP).

If you rolled the challenge last then the WPs unit would be getting Hatred re-rolls they may not be entitled to.


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snowblizz
Posted: May 12 2012, 08:45 AM


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QUOTE (sorberec @ May 12 2012, 07:27 AM)
QUOTE (snowblizz @ May 9 2012, 09:53 AM)
Challenges are usually solved before or after everything else to make it easier since they are a separate combat really, but that's only convenience and does not change the rules.

I'd say that although the challenge attacks happen at I steps as normal, it makes sense to resolve the challenge first before rolling for the units.

The reasoning being, if one of the challengers confers a bonus to his unit, like a Warrior Priest, and if the other challenger has a higher I value and kills the Warrior Priest, the Priest's unit won't benefit from Hatred (assuming they're the same or lower I as the WP).

If you rolled the challenge last then the WPs unit would be getting Hatred re-rolls they may not be entitled to.

That would be the opposite example of what could happen. I've never seen any one do it last if something could influence the combat, however.

Mostly resolving challenges last would be in cases where ASL is a factor for one or the other combatant and challenges with champions, which rarely impacts the rest of the unit. Resolving last is a valid option sometimes, especially if you've got cheating low-I opponent's trying to kill your support characters out of sequence. But it's not common to play that way. In your warrior priest example say an Ogre character gibbing the WP in a challenge. Then resolving the rest of the combat without re-rolls for the Empire infantry vs Ogres.


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