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 Re-Writing the Army Book, Just for fun
BEASTMAN!
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 08:46 PM


Bestigor


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Joined: 16-April 10



QUOTE (eastern barbarian @ Feb 24 2012, 07:50 PM)
My comments so far though- I think chariots are too cheap. To compare boar chariots are 80 points and are worse that tuskgor ones and dont belong to the core! Rule of a thumb with fan books is that its better to overprice that to underprice something as its easier to be accepted by a wider public (and I reckon thats what you guys want right?).

Rune of the true beast- 25 points for 2+ ward save vs. most of stuff in the game? Sorry, ridiculously cheap!

I didn't even notice The Rune of the True Beast. It's very situational item in it's original form or even rothgar's form. I think it wouldn't hurt to have it removed.
Though if it was decided that we must have 8 gifts then perhaps keep it as is and reduce it's cost to 10? Or go with rothgar's version and make it 'improves armour save by +2 to a maximum of 1+' instead of the ward save.

As for the chariots, you've got to bare in mind that on a point for point ratio, they're pretty well balanced, the boar chariot is: 85pts with Scythed wheels T5, I2, Ws3 and Choppas (+1 st 1st round of combat) for the crew who are armed with spears and the Boars are at +2 strength on the turn they charge.
Also fluff wise we've always been heavily chariot influenced, so to remove it as a core choice would be very un-beastmen like.

Also just noticed Bloodgreed. Essentially gaining swiftstride? We've already reduced the price of the Mino's and their characters. I don't like the D6 for overrun either.
Perhaps a sort of middle ground. Keep everything at the normal 2d6 for everything as per normal Monstrous infantry but when they successfully catch an enemy due to the result of an overrun/pursue they must stop where they catch them even if the dice roll would normally allow them to go further.
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 09:09 PM


Beastly Beastlord


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Have you, perchance, seen how much Wolf Chariots cost? Sure, they're crappier than ours in some respects (less Wounds, Armor 5+, Gobbos and Wolves won't be confused for Tuskgors and Gor/Bestigor), but they can shoot, can be packed into units, move 2" faster, AND have an extra Impact Hit, and everything else is the same! It's almost criminal how much better they are than ours. I might have overshot the points trim a bit, though, considering that Tuskgor Chariots are Core. As for the Rune of the True Beast... it's comparable to the Dragonhelm/Dragonbane Gem - conditional utility, can totally hose some things. And having a 2+ Ward save against S3 horses and the occasional monstrous beast (remember, no infantry or monstrous infantry) is really not going to upset most people.

I'm open to a re-working of Bloodgreed. I basically used the previous book's version, because it seems less crippling. Frenzy should be a double-edged sword, but not as much as current Bloodgreed makes it to be.

This post has been edited by rothgar13 on Feb 24 2012, 09:12 PM


--------------------
"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton

Rothgar's Ramhorns (7/30/2011-present): W 47 / D 4 / L 45 ; Battle Reports; Army Diary

Check out my Armybook Rewriting Project! Or my Beastmen Handbook!

My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.

Herdstone Awards: Best New Member (2011)
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eastern barbarian
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 09:35 PM


Ungor


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I still wouldn't put chariots lower than 75 points. As I said, better to overcost things that undecost them. I also dont want to remove them as a core, I just think they should stay roughly same cost as they are. Our chariots are still good. 65 points is too cheap.

Rune of True beast- not that situational really. 25 points for 2+ ward save against abominations, dragons and all other big gribblies? yes please smile.gif I can assure you that a lot of people would think its too good. And you really don't want that. You want people to have a look at it and think "thats a good thing to take- not too crazy, but useful".


Also had a look at ghorgon- its far too good for 250 points. Regen, one attack with killing blow on 4+, all other hits being killing blow on 6+, impact hits. Sure, now its really overcosted but that doesn't mean we have to create a no-brainer choice like HPA in skaven army for example.
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BEASTMAN!
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 09:38 PM


Bestigor


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Oh I'm with you on the Chariot front, rothgar. I also said that I wouldn't change anything about the Tuskgor Chariots. It's worth saying that the O&G chariots are Special choices and are limited somewhat and there are a few other tasty options in their special choices which makes it not an immediate selection for the army. They are very fragile, and only Ld 6 so it's not difficult to break them.

I hadn't thought of the Rune in that way to be fair. And it now makes sense.

This post has been edited by BEASTMAN! on Feb 24 2012, 09:40 PM
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Myrdin
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 10:26 PM


Doombull


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Actually i agree about the Razorcart being 130 instead of 145. Its slight differance but damn, if you actually calculate who does ride the cart
Pumba 55
Bestigor 12
Gor 7
you see where i am getting at ? I wouldnt mind there beying two bestigors for the price of that thing...

This post has been edited by Myrdin on Feb 24 2012, 11:11 PM


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Myrdins Beastmen, Nippon Empire and Tau - diary with a mash up projects for all 3 of my armies.

Chronicles of the Beast - Made up lore and stories for my Natural Beastmen
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BEASTMAN!
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 10:31 PM


Bestigor


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Joined: 16-April 10



As for the Ghorgon you raise an interesting point. Gaining regen, d6 impact hits, killing blow and the 4+ KB attack at a reduced cost of 250 is perhaps a little OP it's now comparable to an A-bomb, which we don't want we're trying to balance with the 8th ed books not compete with the book that came out before us.
Regen 5+ or Scaly skin 4+, KB and 4+ KB attack would be fine at 260pts.
It's still the killing machine it should be with a bit of survivability, which we wanted.
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 11:04 PM


Beastly Beastlord


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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I've made some tweaks to address your concerns. The Rune of the True Beast got dropped to a 4+ Ward, the Chariots got bumped back up in price a bit (though to be honest with you, I'd never use them), Gors have Shields by default and got bumped back up in points, and the Ghorgon's healing ability got toned down.

I've also done my re-write of the Lore of the Wild, based on some of the alternatives posted here and my own ideas. Have a look and tell me what you think! smile.gif


--------------------
"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton

Rothgar's Ramhorns (7/30/2011-present): W 47 / D 4 / L 45 ; Battle Reports; Army Diary

Check out my Armybook Rewriting Project! Or my Beastmen Handbook!

My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.

Herdstone Awards: Best New Member (2011)
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Myrdin
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 11:14 PM


Doombull


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Joined: 11-September 11



Even if you give Gors shield, its useless as it comes when the AHW is still 1pts swap.
Either a free swap, or dont give them 1pts light armour - (though i would give the Light Armour and the shield as optional upgrade - would actually make the shield a viable option for the 5+)


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Myrdins Beastmen, Nippon Empire and Tau - diary with a mash up projects for all 3 of my armies.

Chronicles of the Beast - Made up lore and stories for my Natural Beastmen
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Bagrar
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 12:18 AM


Minotaur


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Throw in a generic centigor character. Call him a Warhoof, 95 points. M8 WS5 S4 T4 BS3 A3 LD8 I3. Comes with a spear
Light armor 3, heavy armor 5, AHW 3, GW 7, sheild 3, throwing axes 2, Can be the bsb for 25. Can have 50 points of magic crap.
Has all the centigors Current special rules
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 01:06 AM


Beastly Beastlord


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I'm not enthused by the concept of a Centigor Hero, to be honest with you.


--------------------
"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton

Rothgar's Ramhorns (7/30/2011-present): W 47 / D 4 / L 45 ; Battle Reports; Army Diary

Check out my Armybook Rewriting Project! Or my Beastmen Handbook!

My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.

Herdstone Awards: Best New Member (2011)
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BEASTMAN!
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 01:15 AM


Bestigor


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Joined: 16-April 10



There's little point adding in units. Things could get out of hand this way. It's better to balance out the stuff that we have currently.
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Bagrar
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 03:13 AM


Minotaur


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I just want to retain swift- stride when placing a character with the bsb in a large unit of centi is all. Another option/ variety my brothas. O well I tried shrug.gif
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eastern barbarian
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 03:47 AM


Ungor


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I am with Beastmen when it comes to new units and characters- there is enough to work on, things will get out of hand when we start adding new stuff. I will have a look at updated list tomorrow and say what i think, but its looking better and better smile.gif
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Hircinus
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 05:00 AM


Foe Render


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I wish I could just flick through the book now but I'd rather not let anyone else know I have it. Might get some alone time over the next couple of days...then I can join the discussion...if it aren't concluded by then that is.

QUOTE (Bagrar @ Feb 25 2012, 03:13 AM)
I just want to retain swift- stride when placing a character with the bsb in a large unit of centi is all. Another option/ variety my brothas. O well I tried shrug.gif


Well why not have he ability as an upgrade/bit of gear? And don't the Centigors have the ability to field a slightly better one in the squad through an upgrade, like Gors?

This post has been edited by Hircinus on Feb 25 2012, 05:07 AM


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Everything dies...

"And when the light shines in, does it mean I'm willing to see what makes me so ugly?"
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 06:32 AM


Beastly Beastlord


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Posts: 2,877
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Joined: 2-July 11



He's talking about a character, though, not a unit champ. A character is a whole other can of worms. The reasons I'm down on a Centigor character are that I think we have enough units in the book, plus it's awful hard for that character to find a niche (especially now that I have Centigors always re-rolling Primal Fury tests!).


--------------------
"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton

Rothgar's Ramhorns (7/30/2011-present): W 47 / D 4 / L 45 ; Battle Reports; Army Diary

Check out my Armybook Rewriting Project! Or my Beastmen Handbook!

My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.

Herdstone Awards: Best New Member (2011)
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