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 Vampires 2500 take one
Ralin Givens
Posted: Feb 9 2012, 11:13 PM


Minotaur


Group: Member
Posts: 282
Member No.: 4,962
Joined: 3-August 11



Vampire Lord 519
Ogre blade
Night Shroud
Other Tricksters shard
Red Fury
Dreadknight
Quick Blood
HA + Shield
Lvl 4 Vampires

Necromancer 125
Lvl 2
Dispel Scroll

Necromancer 100
Lvl 2

Tomb Banshee 95

Tomb Banshee 95

50 Zombies 160
Muso + SB

50 Zombies 160
Muso + SB

40 Ghouls 400

Corpse Cart 105
Balefire

Spirit host 45

Spirit host 45

Spirit host 45

Terrorgheist 225

Black Coach 195

Varghulf 175

Total: 2489


Here is my first draft of my VC list
Reason for no Mortis Engine is I feel I do not have enough casters to use it effectively and my group enjoys Hellheart
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Gojiragor
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 12:06 AM


Pedantic Beastlord


Group: Member
Posts: 2,049
Member No.: 3,753
Joined: 14-November 09



It feels like your list is trying to be all things without doing either really well.

There isn't that much punch in there, I mean that as a beast player too, I'm not that scared about anything. It's not really a scream list or a regen list or an invoc list. It's a bit of a mish mash. There are plenty of 'paths to victory' as Jervis puts it, with the new book so you can get a lot of mileage going from build to build. Your general looks like he's going to get killed on the front lines, not by characters but by 6s. 3+ armour save no ward and a lvl 4, it's a metric tonne of VPs to give up too easily and not to mention the crumble.

It also looks like you have no bunker, are you leaving necros loose or putting them in units? They will just get smacked around in units as they get allocated against.

Think about what your getting out of the lvl 4 vamp. It's a huge amount of points that a master necro can do even better with a periapt and still be way cheaper. It's 8th ed as we all know so spend the surplus points on a punchy unit rather than a sungle punchy character. I would only go casty lvl 4 vamp with MOTBA and I'd still be keeping him off the front lines with a ward. I don't even like MOTBA but it's just the only reason I can see for a casty vamp.

Your list is reasonably solid though. It definitely has the framework of a competitive build, but I personally think it needs tweaks. GG have been wrongly written off, they still wreck face and wreck more face than BK. Plus they will regrow faster d6 > 1and keep efectiveness in every round. The other option I like is CHs instead of GG, even though I think GG might ne better. CHs with an engine behind them (slowest thing in the army I think) would be a real headache for anyone. One of my lists has a horde of 18, but had some suggestions for 2 units of 9 for two for the price of one invocs.

If you are going to go the scream route I would try two gheists 3 banshees maybe and the scream sword. But it's the build I'll be trying last though.

Skeletons are involved in none of my tourney builds unfortunately as they are still useless. I see you noticed this too. :-)

Good luck with the VC, dodgy fluff aside, it's a really nice book.

This post has been edited by Gojiragor on Feb 10 2012, 12:10 AM


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user posted image
-Beastmen, probably the best army in the world.

Best website on the internet. http://godzillahaiku.tumblr.com/
http://www.hobbycraic.com The Irish Warhammer Podcast.
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 02:32 AM


Beastly Beastlord


Group: Member
Posts: 2,877
Member No.: 4,917
Joined: 2-July 11



I think Gojiragor is spot-on with all his comments, and I'll add some more based on my own research.

I can't say I'm a fan of having the Vamp do all the proverbial heavy lifting on the casting, especially if he has no Ward save and as high a points total as 2500. A naked L4 Master Necro is not going to prevent you from grabbing most of the fighting kit and making him a beast if that's what you want, and that way your game doesn't hang in the balance every time the Vamp gets wounded.

As was also mentioned above, you need blocks with punch if you're hoping to kill anybody. Personally, I'm still looking at Grave Guard as the go-to unit for that sort of thing - they may have lost some of the upgrades you could pack on them, but they went down in price and are still getting a unit-wide +1 to hit and swinging at S6. Blocks of 6 or so Vargheists are also an option here (I'm using both, but I'm not bringing a Screamer list).

The biggest thing I think you have to do, though, is pick what kind of list you want, because Vampires have different things they can do well, and which one you want to do influences what else goes in the army. I think the transition from Beastmen to VC is actually an easy one, because they both love synergy.

Also, Dire Wolves. Bring them.

This post has been edited by rothgar13 on Feb 10 2012, 02:33 AM


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"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton

Rothgar's Ramhorns (7/30/2011-present): W 47 / D 4 / L 45 ; Battle Reports; Army Diary

Check out my Armybook Rewriting Project! Or my Beastmen Handbook!

My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.

Herdstone Awards: Best New Member (2011)
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Ralin Givens
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 04:00 AM


Minotaur


Group: Member
Posts: 282
Member No.: 4,962
Joined: 3-August 11



Yah I am really looking at them like I look at my beastmen.
Chaff drops
lil suppor casters
main killer/ support general
big caster bu I combined these last two

So you think I should drop the 3 levels and run a lvl 4 necro? any gear on him or no
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 05:43 AM


Beastly Beastlord


Group: Member
Posts: 2,877
Member No.: 4,917
Joined: 2-July 11



If you bunker him you can get away with running him naked, for the most part.


--------------------
"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton

Rothgar's Ramhorns (7/30/2011-present): W 47 / D 4 / L 45 ; Battle Reports; Army Diary

Check out my Armybook Rewriting Project! Or my Beastmen Handbook!

My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.

Herdstone Awards: Best New Member (2011)
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Gojiragor
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 10:42 AM


Pedantic Beastlord


Group: Member
Posts: 2,049
Member No.: 3,753
Joined: 14-November 09



QUOTE (rothgar13 @ Feb 10 2012, 02:32 AM)
A naked L4 Master Necro is not going to prevent you from grabbing most of the fighting kit and making him a beast if that's what you want, and that way your game doesn't hang in the balance every time the Vamp gets wounded.

@Ralin Givens
I'm using an MNecro as my general at the minute with this setup

Lvl4, 4+ ward, periapt. For over 200 points less there's a general with a ward and provides a better magic phase.

Some of my lists have 2 MNecros because they are good value. My second one is usually obsidian amulet and book of arkhan. The book is important because without it you have ONE van hels ATTEMPT per turn, which is terrible. Overall then you will have two boosted invocs and every spell in the lore. RiP spells plus periapt is a headache to be on the other side of. Thats not even including your hero necros yet.

I have made several lists that are different for different levels of comp from none to light to SCALE. I'm happy with them all and they feel decent to me to the point where I get depressed for my beast book. My different lists from that always leave me feeling like I'm cutting off a leg in exchange for a bulky upper body.

It's a shame because I really think Nagash is a douche. TK you get to be 'good guys' and undead, but less 'paths to victory'.

Not sure what this means. Your vamp will still have to be general so having him taking wounds in the front line is still something to worry about.
Also, Dire wolves are ok but no more than 5 really. Just fill up on zombies and ghouls and take bats as chaff. Bats just do a better job them them. Sure wolves have a better charge but you can't move or charge over anything. Most of the time they are just going to run into a wall. They aren't scary in any numbers really.





--------------------
user posted image
-Beastmen, probably the best army in the world.

Best website on the internet. http://godzillahaiku.tumblr.com/
http://www.hobbycraic.com The Irish Warhammer Podcast.
Top
Gojiragor
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 10:45 AM


Pedantic Beastlord


Group: Member
Posts: 2,049
Member No.: 3,753
Joined: 14-November 09



QUOTE (rothgar13 @ Feb 10 2012, 02:32 AM)
A naked L4 Master Necro is not going to prevent you from grabbing most of the fighting kit and making him a beast if that's what you want, and that way your game doesn't hang in the balance every time the Vamp gets wounded.


Not sure what this means. Your vamp will still have to be general so having him taking wounds in the front line is still something to worry about.
Also, Dire wolves are ok but no more than 5 really. Just fill up on zombies and ghouls and take bats as chaff. Bats just do a better job them them. Sure wolves have a better charge but you can't move or charge over anything. Most of the time they are just going to run into a wall. They aren't scary in any numbers really.



@Ralin Givens
I'm using an MNecro as my general at the minute with this setup

Lvl4, 4+ ward, periapt. For over 200 points less there's a general with a ward and provides a better magic phase.

Some of my lists have 2 MNecros because they are good value. My second one is usually obsidian amulet and book of arkhan. The book is important because without it you have ONE van hels ATTEMPT per turn, which is terrible. Overall then you will have two boosted invocs and every spell in the lore. RiP spells plus periapt is a headache to be on the other side of. Thats not even including your hero necros yet.

I have made several lists that are different for different levels of comp from none to light to SCALE. I'm happy with them all and they feel decent to me to the point where I get depressed for my beast book. My different lists from that always leave me feeling like I'm cutting off a leg in exchange for a bulky upper body.

It's a shame because I really think Nagash is a douche. TK you get to be 'good guys' and undead, but less 'paths to victory'.


--------------------
user posted image
-Beastmen, probably the best army in the world.

Best website on the internet. http://godzillahaiku.tumblr.com/
http://www.hobbycraic.com The Irish Warhammer Podcast.
Top
rothgar13
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 04:29 PM


Beastly Beastlord


Group: Member
Posts: 2,877
Member No.: 4,917
Joined: 2-July 11



The reason why I nominate a cheap Master Necro is because you're much less likely to lose your fighting stud AND your magic phase in one fell swoop.

Wolves I think are fantastic chaff. With M9 and Vanguard, they're pretty much wherever they want/need to be on T1, they don't cost a lot of points, and they fill minimum Core.

This post has been edited by rothgar13 on Feb 10 2012, 04:30 PM


--------------------
"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton

Rothgar's Ramhorns (7/30/2011-present): W 47 / D 4 / L 45 ; Battle Reports; Army Diary

Check out my Armybook Rewriting Project! Or my Beastmen Handbook!

My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.

Herdstone Awards: Best New Member (2011)
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popisdead
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 05:02 PM


Van Goghbull


Group: Moderators
Posts: 3,539
Member No.: 474
Joined: 1-December 04



QUOTE (rothgar13 @ Feb 10 2012, 08:29 AM)
Wolves I think are fantastic chaff. With M9 and Vanguard, they're pretty much wherever they want/need to be on T1, they don't cost a lot of points, and they fill minimum Core.

I think Direwolves are better than they need to be too. No reason they should have been S4 on the charge, nor all the complaints i hear they should be Fast Cav huh.gif


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Ralin Givens
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 05:04 PM


Minotaur


Group: Member
Posts: 282
Member No.: 4,962
Joined: 3-August 11



So I have dropped the bare bones Lvl 2 and all the extra levels on the vamp to add in a naked Lv4 Nekro
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Gojiragor
Posted: Feb 10 2012, 07:10 PM


Pedantic Beastlord


Group: Member
Posts: 2,049
Member No.: 3,753
Joined: 14-November 09



A fighty vamp without all the magic cost is good. No ward is still a big liability as a general on the front line.


--------------------
user posted image
-Beastmen, probably the best army in the world.

Best website on the internet. http://godzillahaiku.tumblr.com/
http://www.hobbycraic.com The Irish Warhammer Podcast.
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