Ungor vs Warhounds

I was looking through the GW site yesterday and was wondering about which I would prefer, Ungor or Chaos Warhounds. Although what I really want is a load of Gors I will need a chaff unit. I was lulled towards hounds because of their superior speed but I just realised that they don't have ambush (duh) and their leadership is crummy so I might get ungors.

However, if I want them to ambush I need atleast one more herd of equal size. And making them raiders...not sure. Could I have a herd of plain Ungor out front and have some raiders hopefully ambush? I mean, they're technically the same unit.

Nope, they are two different entries in the army book, so count as two different units. If 'raider' was just a simple +1pt upgrade in the ungor entry then it would be fine, but as it is you have to have raiders on the field if you want to ambush with them. Luckily a unit of raiders is only 30pts and they can be very handy on the field for screening your good units and redirecting and helping giving you extra deployment drops!

Ungors by a landslide. Skirmish means they're easy to move around to where they can be of most use, the Bows actually help plink at other chaff on occasion, they count toward minimum Core, and they look nicer to boot.

Ungor herd and Ungor raiders are different types of units, and the rule stipulates that it has to be the same type of unit.

Personally I use 6-8 units of 5 ungor raiders as chaff, ambushers, warmachine hunters, diverters etc. And it has been a great success. I haven't really tried the hounds, and I probably never will, since they generally suck, sorry to say. They don't count towards minimum core points, they don't have ambush, they don't have primal fury and they only have LD5. All this for the same cost as for an ungor raider. They can hit a little better (WS4), but without primal fury it comes down to the same thing or even worse. Also raiders can shoot their bows.

The only chaff unit that could potentially replace my raiders are harpies.

@ Billy Ocean Dang. No matter, although I was starting to suspect so actually. 60 points for two herds of raiders isn't so bad at all, despite the small size.

@ Rothgar13 That seems to make sense. And also, looking at the thread about being lucky there seems to be a surprising amount of support for Ungor (some of the things they did!).

@ Halldorben Sorry I just had to stop myself for a moment...6-8 units...that's 4 boxes of Ungor...($$$ shudders) Pretty safe to say I'll never have that many Ungor in any situation but it's interesting to see what large amounts can do. Harpies are a Special unit so probably won't make the cut.

This post has been edited by Hircinus on Apr 20 2012, 12:00 AM

If you have your core covered: 50/50. Each have advantages (speed vs manoeuvrability mostly).

If you haven't filled your core: Ungor raiders.

My core: Gors with a second helping of Gors followed by an extra helping of Gors with a side dish Gors complemented by (it now seems) Ungor raiders.

Now to make me feel ill: Gors $41 3 lots of 40 so that's 41 X 4 = 164 X 3 = $492
+ Ungor $41 2 lots of 10 so that's 41 X 2 = 81, = $573... Mind that's at full capacity and will probably take years to build up to. So over 5-6 years... Still over $100 a year. Probably not going to happen that quickly then.

You're from Australia or New Zealand, aren't you? It sucks that you guys have to pay so much for GW stuff.

may I suggest you look to other places than the new gw?
Bartertown, eelbay etc etc?

I have a lot of gors, and maybe could help w trade or soemthing.

back to original thread, Ungors are amazing.

Primal fury, skirmish (harder to hit them, more flexible, stubborn in forests ...trust me it comes up), they can have command (musician etc) so can fill roles in scenarios and protect herdstone shaman.

Dogs, well, they're fast, but I've found that with ungors filling core, M5, and harpies and razorgors to redirect (both faster /as fast hounds) I never miss the hounds.

Trust me, those bows can be a life saver.

Best of luck

Hircinus since you are aussie/kiwi just jump onto wargamerau.com and buy second hand. 3/4 of my Beastmen are second hand apart from all my Maelstrom models and character models nobody wants to sell. Also look at alternate vendors for some models, I picked up 3 razorgors for 40 euros, thats around $70AU with shipping included and seeing that GW pigs are 40 each I saved quite a bit. Also picked up 54 Bestigors off wargamerau for $150 so that's half price and also got a dozen minotaurs for and doombull for $200 with $200 at GW prices being about 7 minos. If you like chariots buy the orc chariots for 30 bucks instead of 50 for our metal models, I have a couple I've used the orc bits for my herdstone and used a gor with ungor spear hand (Surprisingly this works) and the new plastic Bestigors sit on the back of the chariot nicely.

As a fellow Kiwi (Aussies in the same boat) I almost never buy from GW.
I find Ebay and TradeMe are MUCH cheaper, and you can even buy brand new aslong as they arent profitting from obscene shipping charges.
Failing that, Battalions will sort a good chunk of it (i wish i just saved a bit up first before i started)

Also if your from Kiwiland then try Vagabond.co.nz or Livewiregames (their sister store) they are ALWAYS cheaper than GW by close to 20% most of the time

lol $41 is vagabond pricing, warhammer is just really expensive over here. though i think it may be a tiny bit more expensive in australia

This post has been edited by Irenicus on Apr 20 2012, 08:19 AM

They are not raiders.they are ungor Ninjas. Highly trained elite killers. Mine have taken down an ironblaster, dragon princes, and even a whole unit of Chosen!

Like Decker said, both units have advantages. It really comes down to what the rest of your army looks like. If you are needing chaff that can keep up with minotaur, razorgor, harpies and our rare choices, a unit or two of dogs can really come in handy due to their speed and ability to maintain pace with the rest of your army.

However, because many of our points for beastmen commonly get poured into characters and special choices, getting to the minimum core requirement can be difficult even if you're taking two larger blocks of gor to go with the often taken block of bestigor. If that's the case, since dogs don't count toward your minimum requirement while ungor raiders do, the choice becomes a forced one.

You'll be very happy with your raiders though. Their ability to march 10 inches and shoot 16 inches in the very first round gives us something no other unit, shy of the terribly expensive cygor. You can reach out and touch enemy units in turn 1. For just 30 points they are the only unit in our army to do so. They are incredibly flexible.

Common uses for 30 point raider units:
- shoot other chaff units
- cheapest option in the game for ambush
- redirect chargers
- protect flanks
- deploy first with many units to force your opponent to show their deployment first
- attack war machines and other chaff in close combat, under rated by opponent

There are probably many more uses for them. But, I just wrote those out to show their versatility. In my opinion they are one of the best units in the game because of the ratio of how cheap they are for what they can do for you on the battle field. You obviously can't win too many, if any games if you field too many of them. But, you'll see most beastmen lists fielding at least 2-4 units of them with it not being uncommon to see as many as 8 fielded.

Best of luck building your army. I know it's not cheap.

I prefer raiders myself in 8th, but there is nothing better in our army for jumping on a goblin fanatic than a 30 point unit of hounds.