If you were not running a herdstone list and were bringing just a single level 2 shaman with a dispel scroll, which lore would you choose?

I'm torn between Shadow and Beasts.

What are your opinions and why?

I'd go beasts.
makes our core a serious threat with the signature, and you have access to some great spells.
Pann's.
Savage Beast
Ahnreir (best of them all, with wyssans)

Flock and others are fun too.
Transformation is a hail mary, but can change games and scare the crap out of people. ("wait...what does a mountain chimera do?")

Shadow is great, but you NEED a lot of it.
Most of it is decent casting value, but you'll only have a lvl 2. Getting a 13+ then a second spell is tougher with a lvl 2.
Shadow is a fantastic lore, but for a single lvl 2 scroll caddy? Beasts.

Even with all that said. it still depends on what you're running too...

Going to have to be Beasts, shadow and death are nice to have but not on such a low level caster

What, why aren't you considering Wild? :blink:
Kidding.

I say Beasts as well, pretty much for the same reasons.

With a single lvl2 I would only bank on getting off 1 spell per turn, so we have to look for things that do well as standalone, which works against shadow. Against some armies (elves, warriors), pit and pendulum only do well when combined with miasma, so they're out. Steed is usually not too useful. Mindrazor is excellent, but high casting value, and the strength boost can be overkill. Often the opponent will only have 1 unit against which high strength is required, and presumably you've accounted for that by setting up your bestigors to meet with them? That leaves withering and enfeebling as the really useful spells to your lvl2. If you could guarantee getting one of these (along with miasma) then shadow might be lore of choice, but you can't.

Compare with beasts. Pretty much everything here is going to be useful as a standalone. Agreed with blackspine - curse is the spell of choice (low casting cost, multiple uses) to join the obligatory wyssans, but spear, savage beast and transformation will also be useful.

Beast it up.

Definitely Beasts.

Id take a lvl 1 Wild shaman actually. Defualt spell is suprisingly good

Not as surprising as that answer perhaps! :o

I'd have to say Beasts for a generic list. Generally one Wyssan's per turn feels better than one Miasma.

The only possible way you could be serious is if you misread the spell.

Beasts would be my vote but i wouldnt count on getting off even one spell a turn

I read it just fine
All friendly within 6 go d6+1 towards closest visible enemy with shortest route?
Yeah that's awesome on a chariot heavy list like I play.

problems with the default spell are many.
A: you can't charge into combat.
B: you move to the CLOSEST enemy...which can take you out of position / facing
C: you have to stop 1" away from your own units.
D: This spell is good maybe 1-2 times a game.
E: you're using the lore of the wild. Not sure how many other even halfway 'meh' spells there are. Beasts has many.

I do realize all of those points, but they are pretty easy to refute as well.
1. Granted, but extra movement to charge next turn helps. Can mean the difference of auto in or a possible fail.
2. Granted. If that's the case don't cast it. Easy fix.
3. You always have to stop 1" from units. Don't see the issue.
4. So are many others, there's a short list of spells good every turn.
5. Lore of wild has some suck spells sure, but its better then some other special lores by a lot.

1. It can also and more likely put you into charge range
2. This isnt a linear game so you will hardly ever move forwards, you will almost always move at an angle one way or the other, making you hardly move at all as you will more than likely come within 1" of a friendly unit.
3. The issue with this is that you will come within 1" of your unit nearly every time unless you have so few so small units that you are well away from each other
4. Yeah there are plenty of spells that arent good, but were talking about one of your only 2 spells being usefull once a game
5. Strawman. Why bother comparing it to lores we cannot take? Compare it to beasts shadwo and death

I gotta agree with BBoN that the Wild signature spell is riddled with problems. But HeroZero raises a good point - the OP's question is highly dependent on what you're taking. Most of us, in suggesting beasts, have assumed an army based around a couple of big units. But my rule of thumb is that, as the ratio of my non-chaff units to opponents non-chaff units increases, debuffs become more useful relative to buffs.

In other words, if I was playing with MSU beastmen against a deathstar opponent, then debuffing his deathstar would be infinitely more useful than buffing one of my small units, so I might take shadow and hope to hell for withering for enfeebling. But I never play MSU so thats a moot point ;).

1. Really? No way. Seriously please don't assume I can't understand basic warhammer. If you weren't trying to be offensive then my bad,. But extra movement is a game of do I need it or not rather then an always thimg.
2. This spell is for chariots on a flank. Chariots do need the extra boost occasionally.
3. See 2
4. I wouldn't even bother with lvl 2. Useful once or twice is fine. Its about how often I cast other spellsin other lores as well. I can count on one hand the times I've cast panns more then twice in a game.
5. Sure defualt death don't make me laugh at ld7 and short range. Wyssans is good when combat starts or taking pot shots from small arms. So also situational. Shadow is stupidly good all time so I will give that one.

Lore is determined by army composition not relative strength of the spell in vacuum.

Guys, this topic isn't about Lore of the Wild, maybe discuss that lore's merits in another thread?.

On topic: it's a hard choice but I'd probably go for beasts+dispel scroll+ruby ring. Pretty versatile.

Whenever you take a list that has two or less casters you should always be looking at the usefulness of the default spell above all else. When picking between just a few spells it will be situational, depending on the overall armylist. If you play with one or several big units go beasts as you can buff a big unit so wysans is always useful. If not go shadow as miasma has more variety and is therefore useful in more situations.

I do like the untility of shadow as much as beasts. But really, with one level one shaman, you are not likely to get any spells off anyway. :)

Nice setup for a single low level guy.

I think the discussion of LotWild is fine here though. It's all pretty sensible stuff that will help the OP see why we choose the lores we do. Examination of the default lore of the wild spell shows that it can be as dangerous to your own army as it is helpful (wholesale bearing of your units flanks to the enemy for example), meaning it's probably not a spell for use against an experienced enemy.

As opposed to, say, Wyssan's Wildform or Miasma which will never have a downside to casting.

Thats exactly the point i was trying to make for the OP. No matter what your thought are on the lores, you have to "make" bestial surge work. Miasma and wildform work so well in virtually any situation.

I pick magic lores to add to what I'm taking. Part of the synergy of the army.

When running Centigors as Core I'm more focused on Miasma spam to make sure I don't take wounds in combat.

With a single lvl 2 I'm expecting not to have much a magic phase honestly. May as well just try to toss everything on a Wissan's. It's the biggest payoff I can think of. Or luck out with a Mountain Chimera ;-)

Look at what you are taking in your army and what spells would benefit you most.

Hope that helps.