Hello all you wonderful Herd-folk.

I have here my very first Fantasy army.

I've posted it on other forums, and gotten a lot of advice (WAY better then my first draft which even I can tell, now, was dumb)


The idea is for a low-model count, fast army. I want it to have teeth, be fun, and win pretty consistently (if played well, of course).


I am new to Fantasy, so I'll be open to every/any suggestions everyone/anyone has.

I'll gladly listen to every little thing you say.


Now, with no further preamble- my 2500 Point "Minotaur Rush" List.

Doombull:
General, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sword of Swift Slaying, Ramhorn Helm, The Other Tricksters Shard, Gnarled Hide

Gorebull ( A )
Extra Hand Weapon, Shield, BSB, Armour of Destiny

Gorebull ( B )
Extra Hand Weapon, Armour of Silvered Steel, Ironcurse Icon

Minotaurs ( A ) (6) (3x2)
Musician, Standard Bearer, Bloodkine w/ Blackened Plate

Minotaurs ( B ) (6) (3x2)
Musician, Standard Bearer, Bloodkine w/ Sword of Battle

Great Bray-Shaman
lvl 3 - Lore of Beasts

Bray-Shaman
lvl 1 - Lore of Shadows

x8 Tuskgor Chariots



Some alternatives I've been told about, or toying with.

1) My original list had a Ghorgon instead of the Shamans - (and in theory could still be swapped out cause they are the same points right now). This was pretty well shot down by everyone. But as it was stated elsewhere here - I want to love the Ghorgon.

2) Someone suggested dropping Gorebull B - to strengthen the shaman (increase their levels, give them a "Skull and Stone" combo) etc. Perhaps even a second bray shaman (but then they get really close to point max)

3) Another friend said to drop one unit of Minotaurs and boost the first one to 9 models (3 ranks of 3) - to help against the "they have more ranks then you" thing. - and then use those points for more items elsewhere.


I'm a little lost, and slowly learning more and more as I go along. I'm just looking for some advice and guidance. Especially in "how to play" =D


Thank you all, very very much.

- Hammerman :thumbsup:

I'm gonna reuse my answer to previous list because the feedback is essentially the same. In case the formulation is odd it's because I copy/pasted a part of a longer reply.

You have two medium Minounits but both are susceptible to people killing of the RnF and there be able to hold "indefinitely" or worse, win. I'd probably recommend 3) based on what people have said about the Minobus and my own experiment. It seems to be one of those annoying all eggs in one basket constructions.

What's the plan of the 2 mages. As it is you have two single characters with nowhere to go so they'll end up hunted down by chaff or more likely shot, leaving you without magic.
No kit on the mages at all?

I was going to mention the lack of "chaff" but then I see you have 8 chariots, so that sort of works in the same way. Can't say for sure whether it's good or not. The main thing against it in my mind is the lack of models, there's only the rather hideous metal chariot.

Edit: Oh yes. Harpies! You'll really want some of those. You need some warmachine chasers/redirectors that are actually faster than the things you do want in combat.
While chariots can perform some the duties they will much slower than the Minotaurs

1) We all wanted to love the Ghorgon, but he doesn't want our love. Thats why he insists on dying so easily. Banish him from your mind and you'll be better for it. Or paint one up and just bring it out for friendly games.

2) Don't drop a gorebull, you want to have three tough characters in the front of your minobus protecting the squishy guys behind.

3) I would agree with this, if you run all the characters in one unit then the second will be too easy to pick off. If you split the characters you lose one of the best features of the minobus - the fact that the squishy minos are protected by tooled up characters. 9 minos + 3 characters with a frontage of 3 should make for a powerful bus.

Re shamans - a GBS with no kit is kind of a waste of points. You're paying a lot for 1 extra magic level and not utilizing the sweet item combos he can take and his fighting prowess cos he has no unit to join. I would either:
take a lvl 1 and lvl2 with shard of herdstone (if you have the points in heroes allowance) and small gor unit as a bunker.
OR take a single lvl 2 in a chariot with a scroll, and roll him along with the chariot line.
Because you have lots of small units, I think hexes are going to be more useful than augments, so I would stick with shadow magic.

If you save some points by rejigging the minos and wizards try to squeeze in a couple of razorgors or harpies to give your army some real speed. Remember, chariots are woefully slow until charge time.

Re models, 1 orc boar chariot + 2 new boarboyz boars (the ones you get with the chariot are lame) + 1 plastic gor + 1 plastic bestigor = beautiful tuskgor chariot. An incredibly simple but effective conversion.

All the best!

Welcome to the Herdstone!

The minobus is a tough build to get to work properly, it is very much an all eggs in one basket strategy. That being said, the minotaurs do terrible when split into smaller units, they just die too easily. Heres my recommendations:

Doombull-great build but your missing the dawn stone! Rerolls to AS baby makes him even nastier. A tip to get him hit more, if they are wider than you, have the Doombull in the corner, and line him up to have three models touched his base (4 if against 20mm models) this way you have two ranks that can only attack him. If he is in the middel then he will only get probably one rank of attacks on him. :thumbsup:

GBS - trust me you want a level 4. Hell in a minobus list you need to protect your minotaur list from getting blown to pieces, even the staff of sorcery might be a good idea for a +5 dispel.

Bray shamans - 2 level 1 shadow shaman with herdstone best bet for spamming miasma

Minotaurs - make it one unit of 9, and with the extra points get 2 razorgors and 5 harpies

As for all the chariots, well I've never tried that many but power to you brother :thumbsup:

Okay all - took your advice and how does this sound now?

Doombull
General, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sword of Swift Slaying, Ramhorn Helm, Dawnstone, The Other Tricksters Shard, Gnarled Hide

Gorebull
Extra Hand Weapon, Shield, BSB, Armour of Destiny

Gorebull
Extra Hand Weapon, Armour of Silvered Steel, Ironcurse Icon

Minotaurs (9) (3x3)
Shields, Musician, Standardbearer, Bloodkine w/ Blackened Plate

Great Bray-Shaman
lvl 4, Staff of Sorcery, Lore of the Wild (hangs out w/ the Minotaurs)

Bray-Shaman
lvl 1, Tuskgor Chariot, Lore of Shadows (hangs out w/ the other chariots)

x8 Tuskgor Chariots

2480 / 2500

Lords have 2 spare points
Heroes have 9 spare points

I'd trade in some of those Chariots for a few 5-man squads of Ungor Raiders (the shooting can be handy, and they are completely expendable) and a block of 30 or so Gor to help you have the ranks to break people and deal with enemy light infantry that's too cheap to waste your Minos' time on. And change your Shaman's Lore - our book Lore is the worst in the game, hands down. Apart from that, looks good.

I dont like the sound of the great bray hanging out with the minos... remember you are trying to get as many attacks as possible on those guys with solid armor/ward saves, and the shaman has none. If I was your opponent I would direct as many attacks as poss on him, get some easy wounds and neuter your magic defense in one swoop. Either get him a save or find a different unit for him to hang out in.

Your options are:
1.trade staff of sorcery fro tal. endurance (5+ ward) or trade the taff and the doombull's OTS for talisman of preservation, and leave him with the minos.
2. take rothgars advice and swap 3 chariots for a block of 30 gors for him to go with. In this case, I would still consider trading staff of sorcery for a ward save - I dont see that item as being worth its points.
I'm guessing you will want the first option seeing if you are trying to keep model count low!

I'd also like to see a dispel scroll on your lvl 1 - cancelling one important spell can sometimes be the difference between W and L. The only way I see that you can fit it into your heroes allowance is trading armor of silvered steel on second gorebull for regular heavy armor and enchanted shield. You save 25pts but lose a point of armor on this guy. Your call.

Oh yeh, and no Lore of the Wild :nono: Ever. B)

Okay all.

After work today I went to my FLGS - and found out /everyone/ plays at 3K

So - here is my newly modifed list. More magic love - but now I'm even less sure.



So here we go!

2999 / 3000

Doombull
General, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sword of Swift Slaying, Ramhorn Helm, Dawnstone, The Other Tricksters Shard, Gnarled Hide

Gorebull
Extra Hand Weapon, Shield, BSB, Armour of Destiny

Gorebull
Extra Hand Weapon, Armour of Silvered Steel, Ironcurse Icon

Minotaurs (12)
Shields, Standard Bearer, Musician, Bloodkine w/ Blackened Plate

Bray Shaman (Lore of Shadows)
Lvl 2, Extra Hand Weapon, Dispel Scroll

Bray Shaman (Lore of Shadows)
lvl 2, Extra Hand Weapon, Staff of Sorcery

Great Bray Shaman (Lore of Beasts)
lvl 4, Skull of Rarkos, Obsidian Amulet

and
10 Tuskgor Chariots


Now, I am willing to drop one shaman (the scroll one) to get the one I got on a Chariot - and the GBS as well. I could see them being Chariots rather easily...

Thoughts? Comments? Questions?
you know the drill =D

Please post.

Oh, and THANK YOU! All of you... VERY much!

Haha, I am loving your dedication to the chariots and the low model count. Its so different to the army I run, but hell it just might work and it'll sure be fun.

I like the idea of losing a lvl 2 in order to get both the shamans on chariots. But definitely keep the scroll over the staff of sorcery, you will be using your great bray for all dispel attempts so giving the staff to one of the lvl 2s is a waste.

The downside to putting your characters on chariots is that they will draw a lot war machine fire (see current thread in beastmen discussions section), but with all your other chariots you can at least make sure they get "look out sir" saves. I would still want some better protection on the great bray. Trade obsidian amulet for the talisman of endurance: 5+ ward >> magic resistance 2.

To be honest, I also don't think the skull of rarkos is worth its 60 points. Hell, if you're putting the great bray on a chariot then why not give him the jagged dagger and brass cleaver for just 40 points? 4 bonus attacks against most units (because of the big chariot footprint) and an extra power dice for every kill he makes? :thumbsup:. Put a savage beast of horos on him too and you are going to have more PD than you know what to do with.

My great bray build would be:
great bray, lvl 4
talisman of preservation (4+ ward)
jagged dagger
brass cleaver
tuskgor chariot
Sets you back a cool 400 points, but why not? Still leaves enough lord points for your doomy.

Damn, all this talk making me want to try a lit like this!
But where to get 10 chariots on the cheap? :shrug:

I say Convert some - you could always convert.
I plan on converting some extra minotaurs to make it look like they have 4 legs (or something) and /call/ them Chariots

Okay so small change then:

1/1 Bray-Shaman
Level 2, Dispel Scroll, Tuskgor Chariot
Lore of Shadows

Great Bray-Shaman
Level 4, The Brass Cleaver, Jagged Dagger, Talisman of Preservation, Tuskgor Chariot
Lore of Beasts

My main recommendation would be to consider the Shard of the Herdstone over the Skull of Rarkos - casting bonuses are nice, but extra dice to cast spells with is nicer. It's also pretty good practice to keep your mages way in the back in order to help their survivability. The spells from the Lore of Shadows have enough range to work from the back anyway.

Also, Chariots aren't THAT expensive, given that you're using them to substitute infantry. It's about the same price as actually buying kits for Gors and stuff, though you don't get the benefit of the Battalion saving you some $$$ on the side.

No can do. LOS! requires a unit of 5 RnF models of the same type.

Only TK can get units of chariots and thus fulfill the requirement for LOS!

Putting a character in a chariot means everyone can target him as much as they want basically.

Damn, forgot it had to be 5. Putting characters on chariots really is risky business huh? Hammerman, i don't know what to advise, I really like that chariot great bray build but he will be targeted by every war machine on the table and its a lot of points to lose that easily!

well they are gonna end up shooting something anyways so may aswell have im as is. he has a 4+ ward save. anyway if they shoot him that means they didnt shoot you minos

True, any shots not going on the minobus is a plus.

Now if you would just trade two tuskgor chariots for 6x5 raiders and a couple of minos for scouting harpies then I would feel a lot more comfortable about your chances vs gunline armies. But I guess thats not going to happen :lol:

The problem I found with the chariots is they have a low LD. They may reliable in small numbers close to the BSB and General but If you put a mino horde and protect their flanks with chariots eventually you will find your chariots out of your generals IP range. So with some simple spells or ablities your enemy may force you to make a LD test which probably you will fail causing your flanks become fragile.

If you planning to put your chariots so close to your general, then your 10 chariots will become sloppy IMO.

I am new to tha Beastmen but after VC, I learned that the Inspiring Presence is very important =)

Besides I'd like to add, you can not take AHW with a Shield so your BSB gorebull have a slight error if anyone didnt mention it already.