Hello there fellow goats, pigs etc.

I want to create a small beastmen force (<1000p) with a ranger theme.
I am, however, pretty unexperienced in the 8th edition ruleset and need some counseling.

Basically it's supposed to consist mainly of Ungor Raiders and a character with the Hunting Spear. One block of Ungors(Gors?) with Spear and shield for close combat and maybe some Razorgors.

I really don't want to use any "big" stuff or chariots in order to keep the theme accurate.

- Is this playable, or just too weak against standard lists?
- Should I get any close combat oriented units, or will Raiders suffice?
- Wargor or Bray Shaman, or both at this point range?
- Which unit should ambush?

Any suggestions and advice would be appreciated!

That would be frightfully weak. Though a theme is a theme...

I think shamans are a must. Opponent brings a lvl4 and your basically screwed.

Raiders will not suffice for anything really. (In the context you are asking).

You'll need close combat units, yes. That's the main strength army has after all. You currently have none. Spears and shields aren't very good for combat. Funnily enough.

At 1k I'm not sure Ambush is really worth it (or bigger games for that matter). Depends what you play against, and the table.

Don't want to Dark Chalice all over your parade here, but I believe in calling a spade a spade. At least you know what to work with.

Can you field lvl4 wizards at 1000 points in 8th?

Then what are they good for? I heard they were good units and I really like the Idea of beastmen skirmishers.

Guess I'll stick to handweapons & shields then. I assume Gors are more suitable than Ungors for that matter.

I thought about using Raiders to ambush warmachines and lone wizards, but then again I really dont know the current metagame.

I expected as much <_<
I'll stick to the theme as much as possible and see what I can do.
It's going to be a step-by-step build up anyway, so there will always be time and room for adjustments.

Thanks for your insight!

You can take a level 4 as long as you don't spend more than 25% of your points on him.
Beastmen generally are not very strong at low points since they need some good characters to be effective. I'd not enjoy going much below 1500 points with them, at that point you can still use a level 4 and a BSB.
The list you suggest is much weaker than even a normal beastmen list at that point level. As snowblizz said you don't have any one to bash heads, and that's the strength of the beastmen army. Ungors are not good at bashing heads, they're just good at being in the way (tactically) or being Steadfast so that someone else can do the killing.

The best killers we have are the bestigors and a big gor unit supported by a Beast Banner BSB. That give you either rerollable S6 attacks or more rerollable S4. S3 attacks usually isn't very much to write home about, especially not if you play against any T4 enemies, like dwarves, orcs, ogres, beastmen, chaos warriors, saurus and so on.

It's not a very good list, to be honest. It lacks killing power, which is one of the things that we can feature with large blocks of Gors and Bestigors. Raiders (or as some of us refer to them, Ungor Ninjas) are great to have around, but they won't kill much by themselves (nor will Ungors).

You definitely need some standard CC units, because our shooting is not a threat to most things. The choice of character definitely leans toward the Wargor at this point total, because you need a steady Leadership value.

1. As mentioned, yes. 8th did away with the "slots" and replaced them with %:s. I'd suggest you read the Beastmean FAQ and also the BRB one. All kinds of tweaks. It's a bit messy since armybooks generally overrule the BRB but in this one instance, selecting an army the BRB overrules the armybooks. A lvl4 would take up most of your lord allowance at 1k points but most armies would take the wizard over a "general" anyday. A few might get both.

2. Raiders are good for a list of things, in a support role. There's a couple of threads comparing the different choices, eg this one:http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?showtopic=24218
It sounded to em that you'd be relying on Raiders as the mainstay and that just not gonna fly.

3. Spears are normally less effective than HW+SH, because people who have spears aren't very good at fighting. Average (low) WS, S and probably T and AS too. The few extra attacks won't make up for the loss in protection.
For fighting Gors would be better than Ungors, but Gors with xHW and not shields. Gors can't take spears. There's a very few instances where shields are the better option but they are seriously limited. xHW Gors just synergize better with the killing of stuff. They always benefit more from boosts eg magic and Beastbanner than Ungors really do.

4. That's one use for Raiders. Keep in mind though that people won't leave the wizards alone when they see you have wizardhunters. The other main problem is the randomness of Ambush. There's just no way to make sure you get the when and where you'd need them. A sneaky player will make it difficult to get at the machines anyway.

I think this is a fun idea! And I've actually played Beastmen at 1000 points or less a few times, and using Raiders.

I would tweak the theme slightly to "hunting party" rather than going exclusively ungor. Let's say a Wargor (or beastlord) is going hunting. He would of course take Ungor Raiders. He may well take a Shaman, if only to read the will of the Chaos Gods in the entrails of his prey. They might both be mounted in chariots? Surely he would take his best hunting warhounds? Razorgors would be great for flushing animals or people out of dense undergrowth. Or perhaps the angry razorgors rushing ahead of his force _are_ the intended object of the hunt that the enemy has now interrupted? Perhaps he has Centigors in his warband to help chase down his quarry.

As an aside, I modelled some of my Raiders with long spears, as they would be useful both in killing or capturing large animals like razorgors that the ungors wouldn't want within arms reach. And if you are trying to catch razorgors, why not take a bunch of burly gors or bestigors to wrestle them to the ground - or even minotaurs (muzzled so they can't eat them, perhaps!).

In short, you can excuse pretty much anything you want with this theme :) So you can get your killy things in alongside your ungors.

I found that in a small game the impact of razorgors or chariots or minotaurs was quite nasty, and 10 ungor raiders could actually be threatening!. Of course, if your opponents insist on taking one or two huge units you will struggle, but hopefully you intend to be using this army in a fairly friendly environment where other players will have fun picks too.

Lastly, if you do decide to build your army of ungors and raiders and razorgors, you will have important components of a larger army that you can add 100 gors and bestigors to to make a "proper" army.

Thanks for the input everyone! Tomorrow I'll get my first box of Ungors and get my project started.

For specials
Centigors with throwing weapons for support?

I like this theme alot

Good luck, don't forget to post some pics of your progress :)

Lets not dismiss spear ungors just yet.

Imagine you manage to pull of Wissans Wildform. Thats the ranks of S4 guys.
Hitting (mostly) on 4+ with reroll, then 3+/4+ (T3/4 enemies).
In such a scenario the spear would come really in handy, and its 2pts cheaper tehn AHW wielding Gors - means more + rank or two.

But yeh, you usually dont wanna take buffed spearman ungors, when you can take Beast Banner buffed AHW Gors. But the potential is there.

I can recommend some excellent raider models from the Mordehiem set:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...otCatGameStyle=

I use these as front ranks for my ambushing Gor & Ungor units as they realy look the part, laden down with swag. The main herd is not bad value as included is a Shaman & Wargor dragging a wench by the hair!

Good luck with the project

I have been spending quite a bit of my time up in the Chaos wastes recently, and I am now coming back to the herd, and I too, am looking at Ungors. First, I love the models, but also, I think there is something to be said for the little guys, tactically.

To add to the point above about Wyssans, what I haven't seen much talk of is Mindrazor FTW!

This gets a lot of hype in other armies, but why not here? Sure, STR6 is not the best use of Mindrazor FTW! but it is quite a nasty surprise for those expecting STR3 spears.

I love the theme, so I think a little bit of magic can go a long way to get the killing ability you need.

--Breezly

I never seem to have any luck with Wildform and other buffing magic, so I really appreciate the Beast Banner, as you know to 100% that you will have S4.

I would never pick an army based around how I might buff it, you just can't guarantee to cast spells when you need to. In fact, in my games 9 times out of 10 you won't be able to.

Those Mordheim figures are ideal for this sort of project :)

Here's the army diary

I like themes, I always wanted a goblin/troll army and I think the beastmen equivalent would be ungor/minotaur. Spear ungors with a level 3 or 4 shadow shaman could be good too with the S/T hexes and Mindrazor.