Here is my take on an army of fishmen.
http://www.filejumbo.com/Download/85104ADEE2A74B8C/
Feel free to come with suggestions, ideas, constructive critics, magic items, unit entries, well everything.

I Intend to use my fishman sculpts for the army. As many of you might already know, the army is meant to be able to double as a lizardman army in official games, though the two armylists are not meant be very similar in playstyle.

My fishman sculpts can be found here, and in my various army-blogs on various forums.
http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.php?t=40575&highlight=

I am currently sculpting a Lesser priest on skyray (Skink priest on terradon, I hope these are available when the new book comes out) and a Cthulhu High Priest (Slann on foot)

Thanks

- Kyte

I have edited some flaws now and added a few new powers/magic items as well as added the Lore of the Sea.

the big changes are these: Priests can only take one Power (2 for high priest) but they don't count towards magic item allowance.
I fixed the deep one 3 wound mistake. Of course they should have only one wound.
Leviathan now has scaly skin (3+).
Behemoth crabs cause fear.
Other minor stuff such as point costs has been added/edited

http://www.filejumbo.com/Download/D02FCFDABC9F8CE9/

Thanks

- Kyte

that is so cool pity only the priests can general though

Why? The high priest has the highest leadership value anyway, so they would normally be your general in 2000+ games.

Thanks

- Kyte

For people, who's been having problems opening the file, here's a PDF:
http://www.filejumbo.com/Download/5A88321549445177/

Thanks

- Kyte

Wow this is such a cool idea! I love it :D are GW going to release a fishmen book or will these guys be lizardmen-doubles forevermore?

MAn if this was released by GW and your models released I would be buying them as my next army and thats that. Its pritty much my 3 top dream armies. (BoC, CDs and Fishmen) only one of which I have completed.

Though mabye a larger selcetion of maic weapons,arcane,enchanted and banners needed to be added otherwise quite good. (Dont think fishmen and magic armour go well together just my opinion though)

Indeed, I'll need to add a lot of magic items and banners, along with maybe another unit or 2.

As for magic armour, think of shell armour, crab shields, scalemail and so on.

Thanks

- Kyte

Seriously brilliant, I was absolutely blown away!

I avoided this thread for a while, because most of the home-lists are badly designed or lacking inspiration, or just mediocre. This one seems worthy of being created though! What I love:

1. First off, the fluff. My hesitation with fishmen has been "how can you justify it in terms of backgroudn that they're fighting empire or wood elves or whatever???" since they live under the lustrian sea.

The other problem was that they would obviously have some "sea creatures", but how could they survive on land? You solved both of those problemy very nicely...the idea that they could fight on -any- coastal area means they could march armeis world-wide, and the ability of mages to control the sea creatures outside of the water (making them breath or move magically).

2. Nothing seems too OPed to me, but nothing is bland in the slightest, and it isn't underpowered either. There is often an extreme swing to one of those two ends.

3. There is good diversity but an overall theme.

4. The special rules are cool. The "free water feature" is especially nice, it makes sure you will never wonder about why they're fighting where they are, because it'll be an automatic reminder that you must be near the water. Very much like it does for WEs, who have a similair plot hole.

My only criticism is:

1. Pretty low strength stuff. The lobster ogres should have great weapons, or perhaps halberds (in a creative way, maybe "massive claws, +2 strength"). They cost similair to 6th edition kroxigors but are worse...and S5 ogres just don't work, they need S6 or above (for that price, like I said, S7 seems right).

2. They should have more core choices, perhaps a more sturdy core infantry unit to support the weaker horde-style unit. I'm not sure they could form a solid battle line right now.

I'd talk about magic items, but thats much more minor. Especially since due to gifts, the chars aren't lacking.

Thanks a lot. I'll try to answer to your reply.


1: They're meant more for support. I have been suggested to give them 4 attacks and Armour Piercing though.

2: The deep ones are pretty okay for horde warfare. They have human characteristics, afterall, and can be equipped to be better than most horde infantry.

The idea of this army, however isn't a solid battle line. It's meant to be a fast moving, magic heavy flyer horde full of all manner of naval gribblyness, backed up by lots of static combat resolution backed up by a few hard hitters and hardcore infantry units.

Seems ironic that the fishmen would have so many fliers though...

Thanks

- Kyte

1. I got that impression. Definitely gie them 4 attacks and AP then...that'll mean they're worthwhile, although remember minos, kroxis, and so forth are all support troops too.

2. Yeah, I mostly meant it could be good to have some more diversity, being able to take some "solid" infantry without using up valuable special slots.

3. Yeah, I got that impression. Still, I think that makes it more important to have non-horde infantry, since in a no-battle-line army, you really want infantry that can be mostly independent, not stuff that relies on other infantry too much. If they're just for static CR, cool, but it seems like the army is inderdependant (a good thing) rather than being able to just use them to back up any super-hard-hititng troops.

Having alot of flyers is kinda ironic, but make some sense, plenty of sea creatures move in the water with the same motions birds do in the air.

I realy like the feel of the list, and every unit is viable, nothing seems flat out useless. Very good job.

all I can say is wrong with it is the restriction on the BSB's equipment (due to the trend in 7th ed. books), and the lack of magic items (also, perhaps the pricing on the common magic items could be a bit differebt, as it seems to be cangesd to suite each army).

I myself would probably take a very flight oriented army, perhaps without a high priest at all, and instead have 2 or three priests and at least one deep one cheiftan on a sky ray....

The Trident is an awsome weapon for infantry (though it would be cool if deep ones could get them for +2 pts each).

It's WIP, so I still need to add a whole load of magic items. Any ideas?

Thanks

- Kyte

Well, I have a few, though I'm not sure on prices:

Magic Armor:

Shround of BlackWater
The bearers body is covered in the rare black water algea. The the full force of the blows struck by the wearer's foes is absorbed byt he thick coating of slime that covers this shroud, making it harder to injure the bearer.

Light Armor. All attacks made against the bearer in close combat are at -1 to hit and -1 to wound.

The Dread Mask of Cthulhu
This ancient, algea covered mask is carved in the shape of the great god of the fishmen, Cthulhu. The wearer is surrounded by an aura of malice and fear that is unnerving for the fishmen's foes.

May only be taken by Cthulhu priests. The wearer has a 6+ armor save, in addition the wearer and any unit he joins causes fear.

Magic Weapons:

The Sharktooth Blade
This coral blade is lined with the razor sharp teeth of sharks and other dangerous predators of the sea. It bites into flesh and peirces armor with ease.

This blade adds +1 to it's weilder's strength and gives armor pericing to all of the bearer's attacks. In addition, all wounds inflicted with this blade are multiplied into D3 wounds.

Lash of Sea Serpents
This lash is crafted from writhing, venomous sea snakes that strike out on their own accord and inject their venom into the bearer's foes.

The bearer of this weapon has the Always Strike First, in addition all attacks made by the bearer are poisoned attacks.

Behemoth Claws
The fishman has been gifted with large, crab like claws that can rip apart it's victims with ease.

Models on foot only. The bearer counts as having two hand weapons, in addition all attacks made by the bearer have an additional -3 to armor save modifier.

Talismins:

Leviathan Tooth Talismin
This tooth from a mighty Laviathan is covered in runes dedicated to Cthulhu and imparts some of the great beast's feriocity onto the wearer.

The bearer may re-roll failed rolls to wound in the first round of any close combat.

also, it's just me, but I feel deep one's should get +1 to I.

Cool. I already added a sharktooth sword, that gave killing blow, but your description is cooler than mine. The effects of most other items have also already been covered, although I like the Cthulhu Mask and the Leviathan Tooth Necklace. I'll add those two.

Here is the almost finished book. Still need somebody to do a nice cover. I'm thinking green priest with yellow eyes on black/white manta style skyray with a few Ray'ders behind him, and hordes of Deep Ones marching below with a few dagons in between them. All this could be in a beachy mangrove enviorment. Anybody up to the task?

Well here's the file:
http://www.filejumbo.com/Download/A0A9B50C47E6010C/

I won't change the #1 spell to 5+. Tzeentch has a better one that is 3 or 4+ IIRC, and this should be an army focusing mostly on magic, so a good base spell is nessecary.

Also, I need some more ideas for Special Characters, and a few more magic items wouldn't hurt either.

Thanks

- Kyte

My views on the list, anything not listed is something I feel is great the way it is

Aristocracy of the deep- Make wording clearer, so that it specifically states a "cthulhu" character must be the general, not just "lead a fishman army"

Warp-Field- So a 5+ ward save item combined with warp-field would give a 3+ save? Again, more concrete wording might be a good idea, and that is quite powerful!

Jellyfish- Automatic hits can never be affected by the poison rule, since there are no "to hit" rolls involved.

Tridents- Considering how many offensive units have these, it seems like they should give an offensive bonus. Maybe switch the charge bonus for armor peircing on the charge when used by mounted models. It'd be a shame such a fluffy, cool weapon is basically just a normal spear when used by units that need to get the charge off.

Cthulu high priest- Seems like it should be smaller, as it stands I believe it can't be protected from shooting in units. I might be wrong though

Deep One Chieftain- I think you should make these 2 for 1 character slots. +2 WS, +1 Strength, +1 toughness and +1 attack for just 40 more points make dagon captains a complete no brainer, although its true the cheiftains are more tactical, I still think the 2-1 is justified

Deep one Skirmishers- Seem a bit overpriced, I'd put it down to 7 or maybe even 6 points. I know they shouldn't repeat the OPedness of skinks, but they seem too far
the other direction

Dagon Warriors- Also seem overpriced. An awsome unit, but LD7 means 13 points plus upgrades (sheild is a no brainer choice) is too much

Behemoth Crabs- Now seem worth it, 4 attacks means S5 isn't a huge liability

Jellyfish- I'd give them T4, T3 is kinda silly, especially since unbreakable means you want ot be in combat holding up enemies on occasion.

Kraken- Just wanted to say I love this unit. Alot of special rules but 300 points in todays meta-game of super cheap monsters makets it balanced (hell, I'd venture to say point for point a hydra is still better)

Trench Guard; Sheilds should be 1 point IMO, they're already ulta expensive and won't even use sheilds most of the time since they have GWs

Sharkbite Sword- Just killing blow for 35 points? Drop it down to 25, too pricey at 35

Turtle Armour- Interesting...with a GW it has no drawback to the model most of the time, but still too big a drawback considering its 5 points less than the norm

Shroud of Blackwater- Should be more expensive, awsome ite though!

Papyrus Scroll- Nasty!!! On the fence about this, either very fair but powerful or OTT, can't decide

Fishnet Standard- Too expensive, drop to 30-35

Tidal Wave- Very powerful, I'm inclined to give a thumbs up c onsidering some other spells out there *COUGH*Danse*COUGH*

Sink Obstacle- Waaaay too powerful. The ability to remove terrain? Just too unbalanced, period.

I didn't get to the special chars, I only have so much attention span :lol:

*Dances due to the presence of magic items I came up with*

I quite like the changes.

Though once again the BSB is still limited in weapon selection, unlike any 7th edition BSB out there.

Also, the Trident of peril......if you think about it it is pretty much useless as you would actually have to leave combat with the model for it to have any effet.

The High priest should not be able to get more then a 4+ward with that warp field abilit mixed with any other items. Also, because of thisthe talismin of protection should be more expensive.

and, i'm not sure about the dread mask and the glaive-staff thing being arcane items, they should just be magic weapons and armor respectivly but with a "Priests only" restriction.

And i agree with Daggoth, you should try to come up with somthing to make Deep one cheiftans wother taking, as right now they seem doomed to walked the halls of the unused hand and hand with skink chiefs. I like to 2 for one idea personally.

I like the 2 for one idea for chieftains also. Seems fair, as you'll most probably fill most of your slots with wizards anyway, and this rule would make many units so much nastier, and you could get cheap but effective Mage and Warmachine hunters.

I have also made minor ajustments for the magic items, and removed the whole bodyguard thing, as I really want High Priests to be on 40mm bases.

As for the Man O' War, I like the T3 W4, as it is really realistic, and truly makes the unit unique. The -1 to be wounded by missile fire also kind of makes up for their vulnerability to bowfire.

I don't think sink obstacle is overpowered, just unique, but feel free to come with an idea for a fluffy spell to replace it.

Thanks

- Kyte

Here is a new list with a few more special characters and corrections.

I still need to add fluff for the thunderfish though, but basically he's a rare breed of dagon, who's an electric eel and not a normal predatory fish.

I also completely reworked the trident. it's now more useful than before.

I am seriously thinking of giving the Dagons a "blood frenzy" special rule making them frenzied after causing one or more wounds, like sharks, who go crazy with the scent of blood, but I don't know how it would work, or if it would be too powerful.

http://www.filejumbo.com/Download/74596EF4AC2F3EFC/

And please folks. You know me. I'm an honest person. it's not a virus, but an ordinary word document.

Hmm, I would comment but the link does not work for me.....

strange... do the other links work?

Thanks

- Kyte

THis is so cool! Props to your great work. :)

Yarr, the other links work, it's just this one that dosn't.

weird... Do you have Microsoft word?

Thanks

- Kyte

Microsoft office, but basically the same thing.

that's weird. what does it say?

Thanks

- Kyte