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 A few things, Nothing exciting
terra cotta
Posted: Jul 11 2006, 07:42 PM


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A few months ago, someone, and it actually may have been me, posted something about a new play to be performed in the Chicago area, Lady Chaplin and Her Tramp: The Life and Art of Charlie Chaplin. There is a complete review, and further down that page, excerpts from others. While no one was wild about it, some critics thought it showed promise, but needed editing and other changes. I think it looks interesting, but also disturbing. For example, Oona's plea to the audience (see the complete review), and the fact the Charlie apparently does not come off well, for the most part (one critic calls him "monsterous").

Reviews

There is also some info. about the actor who plays Charlie, and a picture, here. Actually, both these pages are from his website, so I guess I should have just linked to that.

My favorite movie, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is on TCM right now, although I'm not watching at the moment. The first close-up of Robert Downey, Jr. in Chaplin reminds me of the first close-up of Robert Redford in Butch Cassidy. I think A Woman of Paris is on TCM tomorrow.

Here is a video that demonstrates how director Billy Wilder was - ahem - "inspired" by CC in the making of his own films. There is also something out there, I can't remember if it is on Google Videos or YouTube, about your life flashing before your eyes when you die, that includes about 3 different flashes of Charlie. I thought that was interesting. Also, be sure to see Charlie is a Sexy Thing (on YouTube): segment from A Woman set to the song, "You Sexy Thing".


--------------------
I looked at all the caged animals in the shelter...the cast-offs of human
society. I saw in their eyes love and hope, fear and dread, sadness and
betrayal. And I was angry. "God", I said,This is terrible! Why don't you do something? God was silent for a moment, then He spoke softly. I have done something, He replied. " I created you".
"The Animals' Savior"
Jim Willis, 1999.
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scraps
Posted: Jul 11 2006, 08:15 PM


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hmmm...i would think both oona and charlie would be horrified by this (even so, i would want to see it just for the hell of it). i wonder what the family thinks of it? thanks for sharing, as always, terra. smile.gif


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"the heart and the mind - what an enigma." charlie chaplin's calvero, Limelight
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terra cotta
Posted: Jul 11 2006, 08:39 PM


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You're welcome Scraps, and how are you feeling?

I wondered the same about the family, if they are even aware of it. And, again, it surprises me that I knew nothing about the "monsterous" side of "Charlie Chaplin" as little as a year ago, and yet, as I've said, co-workers have mentioned him being a "child-molester", his terrible depressions, political problems, etc. One said she'd seen Chaplin, but I don't know how the others got their info. Whatever his sadnesses and inappropriate behaviors may have been, he did have times he was happy and had fun (gee, even "Unknown Chaplin" shows this) and wasn't chasing after teenagers all the time, but it seems everything about him now focuses on the "bad" things. I guess, as in most things, that is what sells. Still, I wouldn't mind if the play was performed at a local theater.


--------------------
I looked at all the caged animals in the shelter...the cast-offs of human
society. I saw in their eyes love and hope, fear and dread, sadness and
betrayal. And I was angry. "God", I said,This is terrible! Why don't you do something? God was silent for a moment, then He spoke softly. I have done something, He replied. " I created you".
"The Animals' Savior"
Jim Willis, 1999.
Top
Mitsouko
Posted: Jul 11 2006, 09:13 PM


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God, I don't even want to read anymore about it. They all, and I mean ALL focus on him bedding teens. Ok, I am not condoning it, but that was HIS business and looking at the young women then, well, they look the same at 14 as they do at 20, so no wonder. There was no 'teenager' time back then, this is something new. Ever see pix of kids back then, they dressed and looked exactly like their parents did! You were expected to go out and work at 14-15 and support your family even then. Not excusing it. But: why is this the only things people really know about Charlie? I know people love scandals, but they hold them against someone like they are not human, like they dont f*ck up themselves! It just irritates me to see people focus on that side, like he was a horrible man. Ok, I didnt know him. I read what you guys read. But he gave so much to the world, why not focus on the good things he did? Not just his movies, but his philanthropy and his music? His opinions? Whatever his reasons for sleeping with young girls, well, they had the right to say no as well. Most of them obviously wanted the chance to be with him. Like Mildred? Wasnt she going to adult parties, dressing like an adult and drinking? What kind of example is this setting for people? People need to take more of their own responsibilities onto themselves and stop blaming others all the time. It just IRKS me, that's all. I'll get off my soapbox now. angry.gif


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Mitsouko ohmy.gif
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scraps
Posted: Jul 11 2006, 10:12 PM


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easy there, angry bear! smile.gif
nah, make room for two on your soapbox, mits - i'm feelin' ya.

and yes, thanks, terra - i think i am over the worst. of the cold that is - not my whining about it! i didn't go to sleep until between 8 and 9 this morning (finally fell asleep while finishing the book 'a night to remember' - i'm going through my titanic thing right now). i did manage to drag myself into work today - at four o'clock! i was there a whole hour. i'll try to make it in by three tomorrow. wink.gif

mits is right about the young girls back in chaplin's day. now back in the teens, i know i've heard of old men marrying very young girls - as young as 14 - and it didn't seem to raise any kind of scandals. fathers wouldn't think twice about telling some old guy - here, take her - one less mouth to feed - when a wife or mother was needed in a man's life. and it wasn't as obvious to the public back then - that there were still plenty of promiscuous young girls out there. the lure of getting into hollywood and away from the overbearing men who herded them about like cattle had to seem too good to be true. and what about the mothers? wasn't it well known that lita's mother was a major force in pushing her daughter on charlie, just hoping for them to marry - whether willingly or by shotgun? i heard lita went out of her way to protect her mother in the first book. i remember her talking about the pains of what she went through trying to hide her relationship from her mother, when i assume now that wasn't strictly true. i really can't believe charlie went after girls that were that clueless - even if they were put up to it (which i am NOT saying was right), if they were sending him signals as if they were mature enough to handle a sexual relationship, then how was he always supposed to know right from wrong? especially since he had lived such non-traditional life growing up anyway. he had to see plenty of promiscuouity (there's that word again) in his childhood, teens and you know he did when he entered vaudeville - sex was probably something of a very casual affair he observed and eventually joined. especially when everything was handed to him on a platter once he became so famous. i know i just sound like i am making excuses for charlie, and maybe i am on some level. but i won't believe he was some kind of sicko the way some people out there want his legacy to be. every last person on this earth has his or her quirks and secrets. he should be remembered for the art he gave us - the laughter - not the scandals. sad.gif


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"the heart and the mind - what an enigma." charlie chaplin's calvero, Limelight
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terra cotta
Posted: Jul 11 2006, 11:44 PM


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First of all, before I forget, I love A Night to Remember! I have the book also, and it's the best of the Titanic movies in my opinion. If you haven't seen it, you should. Everyone! When I saw "Titanic", the person I was with asked what I thought when it was over. I said, "They did it better, for less money and in less time, 40 years ago" (or however long it was). The scene where everyone in the lifeboats is saying The Lord's Prayer in different languages as the ship is sinking has killed me since I was a kid. And an older man who worked on the ship, holding onto a little boy he had found earlier, as the boat is tipping up, saying , "We'll soon find Mummy, we'll soon find Mummy", and he knows they are going under the water... I'm getting teary-eyed just thinking of it! sad.gif

Anyway, I don't know if such a stink would still be made about Charlie marrying teenagers (and as the 2 of you pointed out, this wasn't uncommon), if both marriages had not resulted in ugly divorces, esp. the Lita case. Also, he knew he wasn't happy being married after Mildred, so he should have made darn sure that there was no way Lita would get pregnant (I've read he told her she was too young - could he really have believed that?). Plus, I do believe he was not very pleasant to either one while married, and that probably didn't help matters. I do think both mothers were initially behind things, though. I think I've also read that it was Mildred's mother who came up with the idea for the "pretend" pregnancy. And Lita admitted that although she was clueless around boys, and I think uncomfortable with them, she did want to be with Charlie. Also, since he wasn't successful in, um, taking her virginity the first couple or few attempts, she certainly could have let her mother know what he was doing, had she wanted him to stop. Another thing is, he admitted to people that he like to hold little girls, so people can think all kinds of things about that. Apparently, Mary Pickford would not allow him to be alone with her nieces. There is a picture of him with one of her nieces, a very little girl. MP is also in the picture, standing near them, looking displeased.

Moving onto someone older, I've been thinking that perhaps Charlie and Georgia Hale had an "I did not have sexual relations -- with that woman" kind of relationship. Georgia and Billy-Boy Clinton may have been on the same wave-length. She could avoid a "sexual relationship - i.e., intercourse - and still satisfy Charlie by performing the act that so horrified Lita, but one he enjoyed so much. She could say, "I did not have sexual relations -- with Charlie Chaplin", and feel she was being honest. Or, I may be totally off.

And don't get ME started on one of my soapbox topics- the need for people to take responsibility for themselves and their actions, which Mits brought up. No responsibility, and no more honor in society. Then, you deal with it at school, too. I had a mother this year who was quite annoyed that I wasn't teaching her daughter basic manners, She ain't my daughter, lady, and guess what - believe it or not, I DID try! It doesn't help when Ma sees nothing wrong with sweetie asking the boys in the class what kind of underwear they have on, wants a detailed description of which way he went to the bathroom (on a boy's return from the boys' room), or her blurting out "Nipples!" in the middle of Math class (I'm not sure "manners" were the main concern here). dry.gif


--------------------
I looked at all the caged animals in the shelter...the cast-offs of human
society. I saw in their eyes love and hope, fear and dread, sadness and
betrayal. And I was angry. "God", I said,This is terrible! Why don't you do something? God was silent for a moment, then He spoke softly. I have done something, He replied. " I created you".
"The Animals' Savior"
Jim Willis, 1999.
Top
ProfessorBosco
Posted: Jul 12 2006, 07:55 AM


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i say 'ditto' to the whole Chaplin-teen thing.
I just don't have the brainpower right now to add anything new...
wink.gif


that new play doesn't sound like my cup of tea. I say GONG.

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Dana USA
  Posted: Jul 12 2006, 10:00 AM


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> First of all, before I forget, I love 'A Night to Remember'!

Terra, we are more and more like soulmates all the time! LOL

I LOVE 'A Night to Remember', and I thought it was a much better human drama story than the one with DiCaprio in it. The triangle of the man and woman who's marriage was already on the skids before they took the trip, and the sacrifice they made side-by-side, father and son, at the end for the wife . . . fantastic cinema!

I did, however, think the newer 'Titanic' did shed a lot of light on how 'steerage' passengers were treated on those types of voyages during that era.

Red Sox: 53-33 .616
Mets: 53-36 .596

Wow! Could it possibly be much closer?
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scraps
Posted: Jul 12 2006, 02:27 PM


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QUOTE (Dana USA @ Jul 12 2006, 11:00 AM)
> First of all, before I forget, I love 'A Night to Remember'!

Terra, we are more and more like soulmates all the time! LOL


yeah, YOU guys are soul mates. who is the one who brought up the bloody book? smile.gif

i love the movie too - that ending with the men standing - left behind on the ship - the father accepting the son at last - phew - kills me every time. i liked the relationship between the teenage society girl and the boy she met and learned to have fun with - the '97 version didn't rip that off now, did they? rolleyes.gif
i have to admit, even so, i did like the latter version. long as hell, but i really liked the special effects. and like dana pointed out, the attention that was given to the total lack of concern for third class passengers. that was just terrible. i love the part in the movie when jack, rose and the others are making a run for it when the ship is sinking - when the third class guy runs by the band still playing and quips, "music to drown by - now i know i'm in first class." i remember watching something on the titanic on the discovery channel once, about the rescue efforts after the ship went down - the ones that were pulled from the sea were separated by class, even in death. the first class passengers were immediately embalmed - second class passengers were simply put into wooden coffins and the poor third class passengers were just tossed into rooms filled with ice. titanic's story has just always fascinated me through and through. there is one scene that terrifies me more than any horror movie i've even seen - when rose is running around, trying to find someone to help her rescue jack from being handcuffed to the wall in one of rooms in the lower part of the ship. when the lights flicker out and you hear that awful groaning noise the ship makes - god, it just scares the HELL out of me to imagine myself in that same position. yikes, i just scared myself!
i would have liked to know of chaplin's reaction to the titanic disaster - did he ever mention it? just think of how close he could have come to somehow finding his way on board - unlikely - but it could have happened. ohmy.gif

oh yeah - remember how we were talking about how some of us resist getting on board with the rest of the world when a new movie, fad or gadget comes out? i did that when the whole titanic thing came out with the movie a few years ago. even though i love the titanic, i just couldn't get swept up into it. that, and my boss blew the ending for me. yeah, yeah, i knew the ship sank - haha - but she told me about how jack's character died at the end, which pissed me off enough to keep me away. i didn't probably watch it until a year or two later. THEN i was like, 'wow, that titanic movie was really good, huh?' and everyone thought i was nuts. unsure.gif


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"the heart and the mind - what an enigma." charlie chaplin's calvero, Limelight
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scraps
Posted: Jul 12 2006, 02:37 PM


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QUOTE (terra cotta @ Jul 12 2006, 12:44 AM)
Apparently, Mary Pickford would not allow him to be alone with her nieces. There is a picture of him with one of her nieces, a very little girl. MP is also in the picture, standing near them, looking displeased.


you know...i would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when mary pickford and charlie were alone together and in the mood to be honest with each other. me-ow!


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"the heart and the mind - what an enigma." charlie chaplin's calvero, Limelight
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terra cotta
Posted: Jul 12 2006, 08:29 PM


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QUOTE (scraps @ Jul 12 2006, 03:37 PM)
[QUO
you know...i would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when mary pickford and charlie were alone together and in the mood to be honest with each other.  me-ow!


Scraps, if you don't have it, you should get the book, "The Legend of Charlie Chaplin". Among the contibuters is Mary Pickford, with an article that appeared in a magazine in the 50's (you may already have read it - it's the one that ends, "And that was the last time I saw that...lovable genius of a problem child, Charlie Chaplin". She does write kindly about him for the most part, but the last section has to do with United Artists, where she says "nothing in the world would induce me to live over the agonizing years I experienced with Charlie as a business partner." (He, of course, wrote how it dismayed him to see what a tough business woman "America's Sweetheart" was. And what did she say at a meeting once, I think "gentlemen, it behooves us...", which he though was funny, so he kept repeating it, much to her annoyance?).
She also comments about a visit to his house, to talk business. She says she thought that in the past she "had seen Charlie in a tantrum, but this beat everything." At the end of their not very successful get togther, and as she was leaving, she saw he had no intention of opening the door for her. She was afraid she'd lose her temper, but there was a problem with the lock, so he had to open it for her in the end. Apparently, they did lose it with each other at United Artists meetings, where it seemed they never saw eye-to-eye, and I'm sure both were jealous as far as the other's relationship with Douglas Fairbanks. Two people with strong personalities - imagine if the two of them had ever hooked up!

Dana and Scraps, the Titanic movie with the marriage in trouble and the son staying with the father on the ship was the other Titanic film from the 50s, The Titanic, with Clifton Webb and Barbara Stanwyck, as opposed to simply Titanic from the 90s, which I'm not a fan of (and everytime I see Charlie looking for Jackie Coogan in the flophouse in The Kid, calling "Jack? Jack? Jack?" - I know he named the baby John, but I think it's been mentioned before that it looks like he says "Jack", which is a nickname for "John" - I think of Kate Winslet saying "Jack! Jack! Jack!). For years I was not sure which movie was A Night to Remember (which is done more in a documentary style), and which was The Titanic. My sister and I used to watch both of them on TV all the time, and blubber. One time when we had friends over as teenagers, we happened upon one of the movies on TV, and my sister had everyone on the verge of tears, thinking it was The Titanic, and telling them how the father, son, and other men sing "Nearer My God to Thee" as the boat is sinking. We watched and waited - and the scene never came. Finally, she said, "Oh sorry, this is the other one". Both those movies are recommended, and I recommend the cast album of the Broadway musical of a few years ago as well, "Titanic" - how cleverly named!. Oh, and I have always been fascinated with the ship, Scraps. It's so fascinatingly horrible that everything that had to happen for that ship to sink actually did happen, and on the "maiden voyage". I've often wondered what those people must have been thinking as it was occuring. They had to be in disbelief, as I guess most people are when something like that is happening to them.

Dana, now that the American League has home field advantage in the World Series, if it comes down to the Mets and Red Sox, I think Boston will be celebrating in the end!

Speaking of The Kid up above, I was watching some of A Woman of Paris on TCM, and still have it on out in the living room, I have thought before that at times you really can hear that Eric James used unused or recycled themes from The Kid for this movie. Also, I think I teeny bit from "Sunnyside". Oh, and before the movie, they had some of those "One Reel Wonders". These were clips from silent movies with someone (the voice was so familiar, but I couldn't remember who it was) doing humorous narration. After a brief clip from one of the silent Carmen films, suddenly, there was Charlie in A Busy Day, as the narrator pointed out, minus his mustache, and dressed in the latest style that no other woman would dress in (I'm paraphrasing). He also said something about recognizing his feet, and "look at them move!".


--------------------
I looked at all the caged animals in the shelter...the cast-offs of human
society. I saw in their eyes love and hope, fear and dread, sadness and
betrayal. And I was angry. "God", I said,This is terrible! Why don't you do something? God was silent for a moment, then He spoke softly. I have done something, He replied. " I created you".
"The Animals' Savior"
Jim Willis, 1999.
Top
Mitsouko
Posted: Jul 12 2006, 10:19 PM


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You guys have the teenager thing down, man. I agree totally. People were different back then and hell, my grandmother married at 13 and had my Dad a year later and no one blinked an eye! I'd KILL my daughter if she was insisting on 'getting married' at that age! No WAY!!!!! Yeah, I also have many doubts of how 'innocent' Lita was. I am sure she was a virgin but that doesnt mean she was innocent of 'balckmail' or 'manipulation'. Like I mentioned earlier, I know why Charlie was mean to them: he knew after awhile he got roped in and was going to be taken, hell, I'd get pissy too! If you know someone just wants your name and your money, would you be expected to feel 'warmly' towards them? HELL no! II'd freeze em out!
Y aknow, some people call others bitches and bastards and hard to work with if they slightly disagree with them. I have worked with people before that have said my Boss is hard to work with if he is the slightest bit assertive and knows what he wants. But to me, unless someone is an ass and downright mean and nasty, I respect a man or lady like that. I respect their brains. I am not saying Chacha was easy; I have a pretty good feeling he was mercurial as hell. BUT: he was probably just very forthright and didnt want to bow down to anyone, and La Pickford was like that too (another Aries, ouch) and neither of them wanted to take the follwing role. Understandable.
Personally, and I am not sure of course, but I think people are exaggerating Chacha's draw towards girls. I mean, girls. Kids. Come on! He saw the youth and the innocence and like we all said, there was no in between then, you were a kid, then an 'adult', no teenage years were to be celebrated. You're 14? Go get a job, be responsible. So, I can see why his initial sexual orientation and expectations were a bit muddled. But I dont think he was a paedophile! I just dont want to think of him that way, and I refuse. besides, that was his cross to bear. No one died because of it. And if he stained his share of blue dresses, more power to him, I say. I find it vrey hard to beleive that he was alone in his company, and that he 'forced' anyone to go unwillingly.

Anyway, about the Titanic. I also loved the movie, hated the love story angle (yeck!) but the effects were amazing! I would like to read that book, also. It sounds great because I dont know much about it and have no clue what the real situations were like. That should be some interesting reading.
Oh, yeah being trapped in that cold, watery grave of a shiP: what a nightmare! I HATE water and being in the dark ocean like that would give me a heart attack to begin with!!!! Chris wont even watch the movie; we are both big movie buffs and he owns it; but he wont watch it. He says it's too hard on him, he doesnt want to cry. Ok, we both cried at 'The Green Mile' and I cried when I saw Titranic too, it's horrifying, and you cant help but put yourself in their places. Ugh....


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Mitsouko ohmy.gif
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ProfessorBosco
Posted: Jul 13 2006, 07:48 AM


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QUOTE (Mitsouko @ Jul 12 2006, 10:19 PM)
You guys have the teenager thing down, man. I agree totally. People were different back then and hell, my grandmother married at 13 and had my Dad a year later and no one blinked an eye!

agreed...my great-grandmother married at 14, and she was pregnant at the time! i have a photo of her and my great-grandfather from just before they were married, and i swear they look 25. people grew up alot faster back then. times were tough, and there was no period between child and adult. you hit a certain age, and you were a man, or a woman, and you were expected to start thinking about a family, a spouse, and joining the working force.
not to keep beating a dead horse, but i'm glad we're in agreement about that.
and by the way, why does everyone focus on Chaplin when it comes to young brides? what about Groucho? that fellow had SEVERAL young wives!


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scraps
Posted: Jul 13 2006, 12:17 PM


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sorry...but back to the titanic for a second - or thirty seconds....maybe those who didn't like the '97 version will like this one better - its done with bunnies!

http://www.angryalien.com/0604/titanicbunnies.html


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"the heart and the mind - what an enigma." charlie chaplin's calvero, Limelight
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terra cotta
Posted: Jul 13 2006, 01:25 PM


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"Bun-O-Vision"- now that I liked! biggrin.gif

By the way, Prof. B. you gonged the "Lady Chaplin" play, which made me think that maybe there should be a silent version of "The Gong Show" - where even "GONG!" has to be read.


--------------------
I looked at all the caged animals in the shelter...the cast-offs of human
society. I saw in their eyes love and hope, fear and dread, sadness and
betrayal. And I was angry. "God", I said,This is terrible! Why don't you do something? God was silent for a moment, then He spoke softly. I have done something, He replied. " I created you".
"The Animals' Savior"
Jim Willis, 1999.
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Mitsouko
Posted: Jul 13 2006, 09:24 PM


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OMG angry alien! I remember that! I died laughing...
Bosco, you hit the nail on the head, exactly. Back then, if you were 14-15 you were expected to be working, if not as a child labourer, then as something, like an apprentice of some sort. Times were HARD, and every pair of hands was needed. I wouldnt want my kid to work like that, but you had better be damn sure they would have plenty of CHORES like I did. Maybe that's why people of old are so frigging serious; they were never allowed to be kids! Yeah, Groucho had several young wives, I remember that! I love Groucho..the first album an adult gave me was my Grandmother, and she gave me a bunch of Groucho records. I had em memorised. "Lydia, oh Lydia, that En-cy-clo-pidia." LOL
'When her muscles start relaxin' up the hill comes Andrew Jackson..."


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Mitsouko
Posted: Jul 13 2006, 09:27 PM


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Did you take a gander at her diary? My friend Nora and I, who went to grade school together in the 70's, DIED laughing because Nora had the same thing and she scanned it for me. 'Dear Dairy' LOL
Amy's Diary


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terra cotta
Posted: Jul 13 2006, 11:25 PM


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More of the same-old same-old, re: Charlie (go to pg. 4): article

I loved Amy's "Dairy",and I want to know why "Peter" couldn't give her a 4th 'horsie-back ride"!


Here is the entry for my diary for July 13, 1970 (actually, it's 12:30 AM, so it's actually the 14th now, but in that one I am carrying on about it being my last day of being 12, and I can't read most of it anyway.
From this, you'll be able to see that I have always been an obsessed whack-o:

(I did not even write "Dear Diary" on that date):

"Today is 13 weeks since we saw Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. We went on April 13*, today is July 13, and it was 13 weeks ago. How unbelieveable!

We went to pick up daddy at the airport."

And there you have it. You can see, it was an exciting summer. Actually, I loved the summer of 1970, but apparently not much happened on July 13th.


* bold in the diary as well.

There is an Elton John song called "Yell Help" that has "the 13th of July" in it also. Wow.

This post has been edited by terra cotta on Jul 13 2006, 11:45 PM


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I looked at all the caged animals in the shelter...the cast-offs of human
society. I saw in their eyes love and hope, fear and dread, sadness and
betrayal. And I was angry. "God", I said,This is terrible! Why don't you do something? God was silent for a moment, then He spoke softly. I have done something, He replied. " I created you".
"The Animals' Savior"
Jim Willis, 1999.
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ProfessorBosco
Posted: Jul 14 2006, 08:01 AM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 292
Member No.: 54
Joined: 17-March 06



mits, i'm a huge marx bros. fan too. i love 'lydia the tatooed lady'
i love the line:
'...she once swept an admiral clean off his feet, the ships on her hips made his heart skip a beat....and now the old boy's in command of the fleet, for he went and married Lydia!'
funny stuff

laugh.gif
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scraps
Posted: Jul 14 2006, 11:02 AM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,173
Member No.: 2
Joined: 5-September 04



speaking of having to grow up eary, didn't charlie's brother, syd, go into the navy - at the absurd age of 11?


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"the heart and the mind - what an enigma." charlie chaplin's calvero, Limelight
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