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Title: science in the background story


kokot - October 24, 2007 01:45 AM (GMT)
I like the sci-fi character of the game, here are my wishes:

Dear George, please don't be afraid to mention more metals, we love metals, we won't be scared or confused. It would be nice if commercial names like ceralloy, ithalium, orthosteel would have something about their composition in their flavor story. Periodic table has a lot of elements, thanks for H, D, T, He3, C, Ti, Fe, Co, Th, Pm, Au, U, Pu etc., could I also request adding mentions of Be (both metal and ceramics), Al, Fe ore (too hardcore to be boring), Ni, Cr, Cu, W, Ta (I think it's cool), Pt, Hf (specific idea below)

and of non-metals, at least:
N, O, F, Si, Cl

attack ideas:
* gamma laser using Hf-178 or Ta-189 nuclear isotopes
* scrap all "dark" attacks
* since "dark acid" is too traditional, I suggest replacing it with "high-speed molecular beam of chlorine hexafluoride" (burns in space conditions, but ordinary iron resists)
* alternatively, ClF6 or similar bitch could be made into jelly-like "space napalm"
* particle weapons are a mess - all beam weapons are more or less "particle weapons", and even high-energy photons can behave as particles. Instead of fantastic damage types, let's say more about the particle types - definitely, neutron beams should have their own category, as for the charged particles, let's say electron beam, proton beam, muon beam. But then, protons are ions, aren't they? And what's plasma, a mixed beam of ions and electrons. Why should ion beam be so dangerous? Let's say something like "electron-stripped fluorine beam". In ion beam, there should be a version using radioactive ions, or ions of highly poisonous elements. Efficiencies of shields against particles and antiparticles should be similar except for ionizer, which should be sensitive to antiparticles. Antiparticle damage should be terrible.
* graviton damage is cool and "traditional" in other games, but I don't like it.
* in explosives, let's mention octanitrocubane apart from hexagene
* lasers, hypervelocity kinetic weapons imho undervalued in the game in favor of more exotically sounding damage types
* but I like Domina and penitent magic, I think penitents should have attack spells against life on board similar to cyberattacks.
* I appreciate that cyberattacks are restricted to quantum cpu, I'd suggest that there should be an option to ask the tinker for e.g. custom-made shield controller (with math-proven security) which would be immune to cyberattacks (as opposed to the controllers bought in the market).

armor ideas:
Armor weight should be roughly proportional to area x thickness x element density, and stopping power should be roughly proportional to thickness x element density. It shouldn't be possible that heavy titanium has 15 points and heavy something-else has 200 points, without huge increase in weight. If you declare neutronium armor, it can be quite thin, but with high hitpoints still heavy like hell. Damage should be countered by various active elements of the armors (such as reactive armor, multi-target anti-missile turrets, mini-auton swarms automatically starting and landing),
there should be "shield-wielder arm" (just like patcher arm) or preventive precision attack on attackers weapon.

In the end, George is a physicist and I know that he probably thought about many of the possibilities I mention before and has his reasons why he made the game the way he did, I just hope he can find one or two useful points among my suggestions.

(name here) - October 24, 2007 01:04 PM (GMT)
Dude, 4 elements have been discovered new as natural occurances in other star systems, and you're worried about a minor misnomer?

digdug - October 24, 2007 08:26 PM (GMT)
well, I like to transcendence technobabble. :) It's much better than many B movies science stuff.
We all already know that a plasma is a state of matter with ionized atoms, leaving ion damage and plasma damage nearly the same thing (BTW George put ion and plasma close together in his damage list), where instead particle beam could be an electron beam.
Antimatter devices are currently the most powerful weapons in the unmodded game.
I believe in dark matter (as many physicists do), let's keep the dark weapons attack.

About your armor ideas: stopping power should be roughly proportional to thickness x element density x bond strenght between atoms, so for me it makes sense to have a 1 ton low level armor with 10 hp and 1 ton of high level armor with 200hp.

octanitrocubane is not a strong explosive, because it has a very high MW. (are you a chemist maybe ?) hexogene (the real explosive) is much stronger.
One of the most powerful explosive should be N5+N5- called N-ten sometimes, but no one made it to my knowledge.

ClF6 does not exist to my knowledge, chlorine is not big enough to keep 6 bonds with F, ClF5 exists and its a colourless gas with boiling point of -13.1C.

as "shield-wielder arm" do you mean a "shield repairing" patcher arm ? what about instead inventing an extra capacitor device to increase performance of the shield ? I still do not imagine how an arm could repair a force field.

kokot - October 25, 2007 01:21 PM (GMT)
Transcendence is a bit more than technobabble, it's actually quite realistic, that's why I like it. If I have suggestions that doesn't mean that I think that the original state is bad. You happen not to be right about octanitrocubane and ClF6, check out by yourself on the web. I don't know about N5+N5. I am not a chemist, I work on bioinformatics. I know a bit about mechanical technology (father) and generally happen to know too many techical trivia which are completely useless in my real life. I write here to cure myself of my sorrow :). I do not mean to cling on any stupid ideas of mine, just to massage the topic a bit. As for the shield wielding arm, I imagine that kinetic penetrators should be much more dangerous than they currently are, energy shields shouldn't be too efficient against them, even ordinary reactive armors should fail. I imagine that to avoid damage, ship would have to physically catch the projectile with a shield made of high-density material, like in baseball. With computer control, it's not as difficult as you think. As of today, the only reactive armors efficient against kinetics are those which react in the direction perpendicular to the penetrator path (that might be "Advanced reactive armor"). Also rotating armor might be helpful against kinetic projectiles (and other damage types). As for the armor segments, it seems to me more like 1 ton of low level armor 10 hp, 1 ton of high level armor 30hp. Even the poorest armors designed for temperatures above 200K are from at least duraluminium, manganese steel, or glass fiber composite. I know little about materials for space temperatures, but titanium seems to be a good candidate. Neutronium armor might have a lot of hitpoints, but also corresponding weight (like 100000 tons). Neutrons should be impossible to stop by either shield or armor, should damage ship components just like those Ventari blasters and make the ship radioactive to boot. Only specialties like neutronium armor should be able to stop neutrons. Antineutrons should be even worse. Neutronium kinetic penetrators should be wild. There I go again :), I hope you don't hate me.

kokot - October 25, 2007 01:58 PM (GMT)
O.k., one more thing, as for the "Flenser relativistic cannon", a 1g projectile of relativistic speed would probably have more energy than an ammo box of hexagene grenades, so it should have more MW. Furthermore, it would pass through the ship like a hot wire through leather and continue eternally into intergalactic space without using even a fraction of its energy to cause damage, except perhaps against thick neutronium armors. Quite a waste of energy. I suggest renaming to "Flenser hypervelocity cannon" with projectile velocity at most 20km/s.

digdug - October 25, 2007 02:17 PM (GMT)
In general I agree with you, that's why I like to talk about this kind of stuff. No hate please. LOL :)

I'm wrong about ONC, I just read the webpage at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.E._factor
it seems that ONC is very powerful.
but both on www.webelements.com and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine#Compounds
there is no mention to ClF6 as a molecule.
I found instead ClF6- as an anion in :
Experimental studies on energy storage. Final report, August 1986-July 1989 1990 Feb 01 OSTI ID: 6840385
as chlorine hexafluoride (and not hexafluorine)
I'm an organic chemist.

I like your digression on neutronium armor. BTW it is already described inside the gamedata, but not used. It's level 11 armor.

evilbob - October 25, 2007 03:56 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (kokot @ Oct 24 2007, 01:45 AM)
hypervelocity kinetic weapons imho undervalued in the game in favor of more exotically sounding damage types

Indeed, I think there should be another damage type for "hyper velocity kinetic" weapons. After all, Who wouldn't like to impale an enemy on a massive metal bolt?

OddBob - October 25, 2007 04:09 PM (GMT)
You can find neutronium, I did once.

digdug - October 25, 2007 04:37 PM (GMT)
wow, I'm going to look for it ! :unsure: :lol:




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