View Full Version: Ion Reflection Too Strong

Unofficial Transcendence Forum > Suggestions and Feature Requests > Ion Reflection Too Strong

Title: Ion Reflection Too Strong

Hookoa - January 10, 2006 01:07 AM (GMT)
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm thinking the ion reflection on shields is just way too powerful. Once terrifying enemies such as Luminous drones and the Ventari destroyers with their device killing weapons are no threat at all once your shield gains the reflection attribute. Swarms of ares gunships are nothing more than a nuisance that get in the way of your shots now.

Ranx? Still scary. They're sticking with good ol' thermonuclear.

george moromisato - January 10, 2006 05:40 AM (GMT)
The trade-off is supposed to be that the shield has less hit points (90 for the ion reflector vs 150 for the plasma shield, which is also level VIII).

But maybe it needs to have even fewer hit points (or lower regen or something).

Ideally, it would only make sense to use the ion reflector if you've already got armor that is resistant to thermo (i.e., the ion reflector should not be pretty weak against everything except ion).

I'd be interested in other opinions...

Hookoa - January 10, 2006 07:51 AM (GMT)
It's the field crystal that really made it overly strong. I was testing out the Jotun shield and the crystal added ion reflection. 250HP with reflection made me pretty darned strong.

Isedon - January 11, 2006 12:39 AM (GMT)
I'd have to agree that the shield crystals are a little strong. My last game in .95b had me using Plasma all the way to Heretic, and I had several near battles with Ares, Luminous, and Ventari. My first game through .96, I got the Plasma shield again, slapped on a Blue Crystal, and the only problems I have are with swarms of angry Ferians and the Kiloton shells. That being said, I love the idea of using these crystals (I've found Blue, Green, and Yellow) to modulate my shields to the enemies I fight. However, to offset the ability to set a shield immunity, it might be an idea to cause the resistances to drop some for other damage types.... being suddenly more vulnerable to Slavers particle weapons after brushing off a couple luminous hives might wake people up to being more cautious with thier crystals. If the handicap were more severe to other damage types though, maybe adding a slightly higher generation rate of the crystals would be called for. Then you could either keep your shields with "stock" resistances and use one of the all around good upgrades like efficiency or strength, or be constantly using your crystals to remodulate your shields depending on the problem enemy of the day.

Hookoa - January 11, 2006 08:21 PM (GMT)
Perhaps a field crystal modified shield should still reflect shots like they do now, but take a very small amount of damage to do so. Perhaps a little more damage than luminous take when you shoot an ion resistant luminous with an ion weapon. A small group of ships will be no threat at all, but you wouldn't be able to just sit next to an assembler or an ares commune without them putting a small dent in your shields.

the_holy_thom - January 11, 2006 08:54 PM (GMT)
at the moment, its a walkover when you get this. i can safely ignore the shots of the luminous and the ares and just target the ranx. but occasionally you do get the horrible "shi3lds down" when sat in the middle of a swarm of drones, taking your time to hit a wind slaver.

Guest - March 7, 2006 01:54 AM (GMT)
mine failed abruptly over a ringer station (Positron crystal i was shooting ringer

Mingan - March 7, 2006 02:42 AM (GMT)
I don't know if I'm dreaming things, but with 0.96a, when your shield is not at full charge, it will take some damage from weapons anyway. Eg. Your shield is ion-reflectant; it has 150 HP, but other sources of damage have dropped it to 75; an Ares gunship comes in and shoots you: normally the shot would be reflected, but now you'll take some damage, even if the shot gets reflected. I might be dreaming this up, but I swear it's happening to me.

-=S=- - March 7, 2006 01:48 PM (GMT)
maybe luminus hunter killers when they get implemented , should have the probability of evolving reflections

Atheist_Chuck - March 11, 2006 08:27 PM (GMT)
In 0.96a, your "reflection" shields will reflect most of the damage, but not all. And like Mingan said, they will not deflect as well once they sustain damage from other weapons. I found this out the hard way.

I was sitting amid a cloud of Luminous Drones and a torrent of ion fire. Most of them bounced off my Enhanced Yoroi MX, but dropped three hp.

then it dropped like crazy, and i died. this all happened while i was gaping, thinking: "What the Hell?"

Guest - May 28, 2006 12:13 PM (GMT)
my yellow just died over a ringer station once. i was shooting it and getting shot but nothing was happening to my shelid, then i died in 2 seconds

Yugimotomanager - May 28, 2006 12:37 PM (GMT)
Really? Maybe something else shot at you and you didn't notice? That's happened to me a lot.

Guest - May 29, 2006 03:33 PM (GMT)
i was on top of the station, so i couldnt have gotten hit by anything else

F50 - May 29, 2006 09:58 PM (GMT)
It is really only the particle and ion crystals that are overpowered. Why? Because the main badguy in the mid-game is the Sung who stick almost exclusively to particle damage. With the crystal, you are immune to ALL of the sung and over 1/2 the stations at that stage of the game. The main baduys in the late game are the luminous and Ares. These two stick exclusively to ion damage except for, of course, the nukes (warhammer and micro). A solution is to equip the ships with weapons of other damage types. Here is an example.

The Steel Slaver gets a (omni) weapon that does blast damage instead of its particle (omni) cannon, and the Defense satalites use that gun insteadl, thus you can be immune to the Wind Slaver, but you cannot be immune to the other ships and installations that will be present at the same time in t\he sung fleet(Wind Slaver vs satalite/Steel Slaver). The tower has to have both blast and particle so that the player can't just walk in ever to one of the sung's major installations. The Ares is a different case because of the luminous. Both of them use mainly one ship with one damage type in large quantities. First, a separation of these two is the only way to resolve this problem by this method. After that, everything else can remain the same since the Ares (weak) capship just doesn't appear and the only place you can find Tundras is 1 or 2 (three if you are unlucky) is at Ares Communes, though ideally. the Tundra's main weapon would also be changed.

goat_not_sheep - June 3, 2006 09:28 PM (GMT)
If you really don't want it...
Three simple words:

F50 - June 5, 2006 09:10 PM (GMT)
That is the point, goat_not_sheep, I do not use particle/ion crystals anymore because I find them unbalancing. I am asking for a fix in the meantime (so I can modulate to certain ships such as the Luminous, curse those bots). Another solution would be to make crystals (or just certain crystals) time-limited.

Atheist_Chuck - June 10, 2006 02:25 PM (GMT)
I don't know, but i can swear that the Luminous drones are evolving.
I used to use my hanzo blaster to decimate them, since they only reflected Ions. Then, a while later, i run into a crowd of drones, all reflecting particle.
So, i used my thermo cannon to kill them. After killing many drones, i eventually came to a Luminous assembler, surrounded by drones equiped with thermo-immune shields. And i was like, "what the hell?"

So in conclusion, i swear the drones are evolving.

the_holy_thom - June 10, 2006 04:25 PM (GMT)
They do. The colony makes them with shields resistant to the weapon you're using, which is why you should alternate. A nifty bit of coding there by George.

OddBob - June 10, 2006 05:35 PM (GMT)
The colony makes them with shields resistant to the weapon you're using, which is why you should alternate. A nifty bit of coding there by George.

Actually resistant to the type that has killed most drones. I think it also applies to kills not inflicted by the player.

F50 - June 10, 2006 07:40 PM (GMT)
This is one of the reasons why I use two damage types. I don't see why an entire civilization would use a single damage type. It is detrimental to the civilization in terms of both resistance and immunity. Yet it seems that most of the civilizatoins stick to one damage type not including the capship.

Ghengis - June 14, 2006 11:10 PM (GMT)
I like the way reflect crystals work now -- you only get to pick one type out of a handful you're likely to be using at any given time, AND you can't use a HP enhancement at the same time. I'd frankly like to see more of this sort of thing... maybe a really rare, high-level, low-HP, low-regen shield that you can (U)se to change its reflect type (perhaps from a limited subset), and whenever you change, it goes offline. You then have to manually turn it back on, and wait for it to charge back up, which it will do *very slowly*. In this way, you could storm, say, a Ventari base with immunity, then wait... and wait... then storm a Sung base. I'm not generally crazy about having to carry around of bunch of whatever to handle changing situations. Just a thought.

goat_not_sheep - June 17, 2006 09:28 PM (GMT)
the ventari also have tev 9s. That means if one shot hits you... you are not immune.

Atheist_Chuck - June 18, 2006 03:30 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (goat_not_sheep @ Jun 17 2006, 04:28 PM)
the ventari also have tev 9s. That means if one shot hits you... you are not immune.

Heh. I'd worry more about the ion disrupter, since it is more powerful and it does damage to you. Thus, i would put ion reflect.

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