Here is a thread to discuss games in Group C of the Copa America involving Argentina, the United States, Colombia and Paraguay. This group begins play on Thursday with Colombia vs Paraguay and Argentina vs USA.

You'd have to be delusional not to pick Argentina as the favorites in this group. If the US was full strength then I'd say they'd give Colmbia and Paraguay a good fight for 2nd but the team the US are taking is very experimental and while the pressure will be off them they are likely going to be in a little too deep here. The Colombia-Paraguay opener then takes on added importance as a winner there is in the driver's seat to advance to the next round. I like how Colombia look so far under Jorge Luis Pinto but like Paraguay with Gerardo Martino they are under a new coaching regime and are still trying to establish an identity with the team.

Colombia should be helped by having plenty of fan support in Venezuela. Pinto's toughest challenge now may be in deciding a starting lineup. The defense looks set but Mcnelly Torres' play last week versus Ecuador has given him the opportunity to challenge Alvaro Dominguez and Vladimir Marin is pushing David Ferreira in midfield. Right now the forwards look to be Rodallega and E.Perea. That is an attacking group with speed. It is time for Colombia to rise again and become one of the top teams other than Argentina and Brazil on the continent.

Nobody knows what to expect from this US team. I don't even think Bob Bradley the coach knows. With only a handful of players from the Gold Cup there hasn't been much time to work together but if anything this first day of Copa America has taught us to be wary of unknown teams. Just ask Venezuela and Uruguay.

On the Argentina board we've had an extensive discussion of the formations available to Argentina but it looks like Argentina will begin with Abbondanzieri; Zanetti, Ayala, G. Milito, Heinze; Veron, Mascherano, Cambiasso; Riquelme; Messi, Crespo. Veterans Veron and Riquelme are the newcomers to the lineup from recent national team lineups, Veron making his first appearance I believe since World Cup 2002. There's a lot of experience there but also very high expectations. Personally I hope the team slowly builds itself up through the tournament. I want a Copa America title for Argentina and how often do teams that start off a tournament impressively end up winning it? Not very often.

Argentina hopefully will learn from Uruguay's and Brazil's experience and not take any opponents lightly. The young US team has nothing to lose in this tournament so if they come in loose and play without presssure they may be able to surprise some teams. But if the pressure gets to them and they get stage fright... well, let's just say Kasey Keller could end up being a very busy man and Bob Bradley's unbeaten streak as US coach will end soon. I'm looking forward to seeing Messi and Riquelme combine on passes and I hope Carlos Tevez comes off the bench to join them at some point in the game.

Colombia-Paraguay looks like a very even match and should be key in which team can classify for the 2nd round. Colombia beat Paraguay earlier this year in a friendly but that game means nothing now.

rosarino is right Colombia's 2-0 win back in March probably doesn't tell us too much about either team for tomorrow's game. According to what I've read Paraguay could end up using both Santa Cruz and Cardozo in attack. Sounds a little strange to me as both are center forwards. In fact from practice reports of Paraguay their starting lineup doesn't appear set. Colombia's apaprently is, although there still is an outside chance Torres could start for Dominguez. I'm thinking though that Torres will be held back and used as a 2nd half sub to change the game around.

These then are the expected lineups,

Paraguay: Justo Villar; Darío Verón, Julio César Cáceres y Paulo da Silva; Carlos Bonet y Aureliano Torres (Claudio Morel Rodríguez); Edgar Barreto, Cristian Riveros y Jonathan Santana (Salvador Cabañas); Roque Santa Cruz y Oscar Cardozo

Técnico: Gerardo Martino

Miguel Calero; Gerardo Vallejo, Iván Córdoba, Mario Yepes, Javier Arizala; Fabián Vargas, Jhon Viáfara, Álvaro Domínguez, David Ferreira; Hugo Rodallega y Edixon Perea

Técnico: Jorge Luis Pinto

I'm happy with Colombia's proposed lineup. I'm just ready for them to start playing. After seeing all the other groups play I'm more ready than ever for Colombia's debut. As with every new coach there is always the expectation and renewed hope you get with a new coach in his first tournament.

I like how Colombia's team looks on paper, let's see how they'll function tonight. But what I've enjoyed about Pinto's Colombia is they appear to play the ball quicker and more vertically than previous Colombian teams who were the master of the lateral pass. There is talent on this Colombian team and with the right attitude and tactics they could be very good. Paraguay as always will be a combative and difficult team to break down.

The comments of not knowing what to expect from the US are right on the mark. What I don't like is sending out almost an entire team of untested players. Sure Keller, Bornstein, Feilhaber and Clark are coming off the Gold Cup, as are Johnson and twellman, but the rest of the team is very inexperienced and as Merengue noted in the US forum's Copa America thread, it is inviting failure to put so many inexperienced players together on one team. It would have been better to mix some green players with a few more who've been through it before with the national team.

As for Argentina, well it is a team any fan of the game will want to see. The constellation of stars they have and the way they play is always enjoyable to watch. The question for them is how to fit them all into the team and how to handle the huge expectations surrounding them.

It has been an excellent first two days of the Copa America. Here is wishing today goes equally as well. Colombia-Paraguay does look like a pretty even matchup on paper. Both defenses are very strong but Colombia has the speed and skill advantage so I think they should be slight favorites.

Argentian obviously are favorites against the US but as has been noted here, the US team is a group of unknowns and if they play loosely, they might be able to cause more problems than expected. Still the prospect of Cambiasso, Veron, Riquelme and Messi combining for Argentina is something we Argentina fans are greatly looking forward to. Basile needs to make sure the defense is alert to the US' counters and set pieces. But in the coach's favor is the fact his teams have always played good futbol that is pleasing to watch.

this columbian team looked like total crap man. unbelievable.

Paraguay 5-0 Colombia

That score is correct! Paraguay put on a counter attacking clinic. I was saying Roque Santa Cruz looked slow lately. Not today. He was outrunning Ivan Ramiro Cordoba one of the fastest defenders on the planet. 3 goals for Santa Cruz and 2 late ones for Cabanas. Colombia were a disaster, completely unorganized defensively and no punch in attack but Paraguay's defense was a rock and as i said the counter was deadly.

Starting lineups tonight for Argentina-US

Argentina: Abondanzieri; Zanetti, Ayala, Milito, Heinze; Veron, Mascherano, Cambiasso; Riquelme; Messi, Crespo

US: Keller; Wynne, Demerit, Conrad, Bornstein; Olsen, Feilhaber, Clark, Mapp; Twellman, Johnson

Halftime. :huh:

The second half may very well turn ugly for the Nats, but for now...wow!!

Too bad we had to score to wake up Argentina. Then again, we played well enough after that. Not holding out much hope we can hold on, but it's a screwy sport.

Not screwy enough tonight. Christ, when you can bring on Tevez for Messi, what are we supposed to do?

Hard to see on-line, but who played the ball into Johnson that led to the PK? Nice ball and nice run. Also, who lost their mark on the first Arg. goal off the free kick?

I'm pretty sure the pass came from Feilhaber, great pass. The US played outstanding for 60 minutes. Too bad the game was 90. I was proud none the less. This was a fully loaded Argentina squad and listening to the announcers call the play confirms how good this team is. 'Heinze up to Cambiasso, over to Riquelme. Nice ball wide to Messi centers for Crespo.......', anyway, Once the US started to tire the quality of the Argies shown through.

Other than the fact we actually scored, it was about what I expected.

The US was game but out of its depth. Got the early goal, gave it right back and hung on for the rest of the half. Argentina adjusted at halftime and pretty much trotted to the 4-1 win.

I'm not sure anyone on the US team really embarassed themselves. The young guys like Wynne, Bornstein, Clark, Feilhauber and Mapp weren't bumbling idiots. Just not up to snuff.

Let's hope Paraguay has been lulled to sleep and is carried away by their destruction of Colombia.

US started playing negative football when they thought Roman was half asleep. Then basile woke roman up with aimar substitution and it was too late for US to reshift gear.

Argentina showed good pacience in this game. The US had an orderly defense and I thought Bornstein was outstanding. Rarely, if ever have I seen a defender stay with Messi even when he tried all of his zig zagging moves like Bornstein did. But then Messi switched sides and found more room, came close to scoring then set up Crespo for the 2nd goal. While Riquelme was quiet for most of the night he was still involved in 3 of the 4 Argentina goals. But Aimar's entrance really sparked the team and against a team just intending to defend having somebody like Aimar who wasn't afraid of running at a defense caused problems for the US defenders.

Argentina didn't look brilliant but it is hard to against a team only intent on defending and bottom line is it was a comfortable win and I'd rather start a tournament off with a win but not an overwhelming one and slowly buildup to a strong finish.

Was Paraguay that good or Colombia that bad tonight? Probably some of both but Paraguay were as rosarino said deadly on the counter and had a strong defense. Colombia had more of the ball but once they got to 3/4 of the field they ran into a paraguayan wall. Of course Dominguez' missed penalty for Colombia when it was still 0-0 also turned the momentum as Santa Cruz scored his first of three goals shortly afterwards.

Neither Colombia nor the US are looking good for one of those best 3rd place teams due to their poor goal differential. Has their tournament effetcively ended after day 1?

This reminded me of the US v Brazil game at World Cup 1994 I attended at Stanford stadium. The US just put numbers behind the ball and except for a few scattered attacks, almost all in the first half, they didn't do a thing offensively and just tried to frustrate Argentina. Bradley did have the team well set up defensively and the two centerbacks played pretty well as did Clark who was all over Riquelme without really fouling him much and took him out of the game until Clark tired midway through the 2nd half. Feilhaber also did pretty well in the first half, and shelsoccer it was his pass which sprung Johnson for the penalty which Johnson then well converted for the US goal. But in the 2nd half Argentina understood Feilhaber was the only US player really capable of passing the ball and they put Mascherano and at times Veron on him and took him out of the match. But as xeneize said Bornstein was the US' best player tonight and his tenacious defending was excellent. Not many players are able to as effectively mark Messi as he did tonight and it wouldn't surprise me if Bornstein gets some foreign club offers after this Copa America so long as he doesn't play poorly in the US' next two games.

Argentina were patient and they eventually opened up the tiring US defense. But what is the point of sending an overmatched team out there to just sit behind the ball? What did the US learn about it's team other than Mapp, Gaven and Twellman looked completely out of their league? When else is the US going to play such a defensive match in the future? So what did Bradley learn about his team other than they can get plenty of players behind the ball?

From Argentina's perspective, this was like a training match. An easy way to start the tournament off. Sure Johnson's early goal shocked them but they quickly replied to tie it up then it was only a matter of time before they broke down the US. And Aimar's entrance helped ensure that. I still prefer him to Riquelme as Argentina's playmaker.

What a display by Paraguay tonight. Superb finishing and very strong defense. As discussed here, they did allow Colombia to have the ball but then they set up a solid wall at 3/4 field and Colombia couldn't get through that. The missed penalty was key as Colombia's hopes soon afded after Santa Cruz opened up the scoring. Like rosarino I was thinking he was washed up even though he's only in his late 20's. But I was wrong. This was a great performance and he took Cordoba apaart with his strength, movement, intelligence and speed. I don't ever recall seeing Colombia look so bad and their defense, usually such a strong point for them, was ripped to shreds by Paraguay's intelligent play.

I must confess that I didn't see either game last night, but I'm actually glad the US got bombed by the Argentines, and not just because I'm a Argie fan.

The team Bradley has in this Copa has a lot of young, inexperienced players, and this game should teach them a lesson in what it takes to be a full fledged international. Most of these guys have only played in MLS, and, let's face it, we all know MLS isn't the greatest league in the world. I find it amazing that they were even able to keep up with Argentina for the 60 minutes everyone is saying that they did.

While some have marveled at an Argentine side that can replace Messi with Tevez, consider some of the names that aren't with this team. Saviola may not have gotten many games with Barcelona, but when he did, he always came thru with a solid game. Maxi Rodriguez wasn't taken to the Copa so that he could complete his recovery from a knee injury. Who can forget that one goal he scored in Germany?

Those are just the two that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure others here could bring up a few more. The depth of talent in Argentina and Brazil is amazing (although one has to wonder about Brazil after they lost to Mexico) and I don't think any of the European nations can even match them for depth. But that's what happens when you have a country were nearly every one as a kid plays only one sport.

Hopefully, after this is all over for the US team, which is likely to be at the end of the group stage, these players will go back to there MLS clubs and demand that they all train that much harder, or simply take it on themselves to do so.

That isn't to say that I don't think there isn't any chance that they might just slip though. Columbia hasn't had a solid outing that I'm aware of sense the Rincon/Valdarama era, so the US should be able to beat them. Paraguay, well, they're another matter, and while they should be easier than Argentina, they are certainly no push overs. In fact Argentina vs Paraguay could be very interesting indeed.

You never know, but I can't see the U.S. going through. Fielhaber and Clark are solid in the middle, Bornstein is an up-and-coming left back, and the central defense is decent enough, but the rest of this team just isn't good enough.

With anything close to a full-strength squad, the U.S. would be competing with Paraguay for 2nd in the group, and frankly I would put my money on the U.S. However, there are only 1 or 2 first-choice players in this entire squad. Just not enough attacking talent unfortunately.

The US really didn't have much alternative but to sit back and defend considering the team they brought to Copa America. I agree with Martin, what is the point of bringing such a team then to this competition? So they can learn how to defend and almost completely renounce an attack? Other than assessing the defenders and defensive midfielders I don't think the US can bring much out of this game. Johnson was the one player who created a little danger early on but he was so isolated it made it very difficult for him.

For Argentina I thought, like xeneize did, that the team showed the necessary patience to wear down the US and find the openings. Aimar's entrance was key and his vitality brought a new purpose to the team. In a tournament where you expect to advance far it is good to start off with a game which doesn't test you too much. Colombia will be a better test who'll possess the ball more than the US and will get more people forward to probe the Argentinian defense but like everyone else I was stunned by how easy Paraguay defeated them.

I was shocked at how easily Paraguay carved up Colombia's defense. Santa Cruz was sensational and always found open spaces. Cordoba was nowhere to be found. I always thought he was a good defender but he was horrible yesterday and so where his defensive teammates. Paraguay were the epitome of cool finishing. They looked very poised both in defense and in attack and while their other games won't be as easy as this one this looks like a very well coached team.

Of all the teams in the Copa America the US were the only ones who didn't come to play football. All they did was put people back in defense and it was only a question of time before a smart and skillful team like Argentina found their openings.

Paraguay looked very good, sure some of that was due to Colombia falling apart defensively but Paraguay just had an air of confidence in their play. They found the openings against Colombia, exploited them and scored. And while Colombia had the ball and tried attacking, unlike the US against Argentina who just sat back, the Paraguayan defense was outstanding. That is how the defense looked when they beat Mexico a month ago at the Azteca. But unlike that night, as others here noted, Santa Cruz looked like his old self. Paraguay's midfielders are more desroyers than creators but tey still were bale to link up with the team's deadly attackers. Like everybody else I expected so much more from Colombia but they looked like they were a disjointed team who just came together the night ebfore the game.

The US has always known how to defend and set up a defensive barrier and they did that against Argentina last night. But Argentina played calmly and took their time and eventually picked apart the defense as it grew tired. In a very exciting first round of matches this was by far the worst game and the only one where a team (the US here) tried playing so negatively. It makes you wonder why they even bothered to show up with such a weakened squad.

..By far the worst game , eh? OK, did you by chance see the Columbian disaster? Whew! ....just looking for some balance here.....

..I can't stand the USSF' approach to this tournament either, but I think it is wiser to reserve judgement until after the tourney before pronouncing the trip a complete waste of time. :unsure:

I'll let Pique answer his comments for himself but in Paraguay vs Colombia, the Colombians were possessing the ball and attacking Paraguay much more than the US were doing that to Argentina. Paraguay scored on clinical counter attacks against Colombia. Argentina scored while controlling the run of play. Maybe that is why he said Argentina vs US was the worst game of the opening round? I'd say it was the least competitive.

The US set themselves up for this with the roster they brought to Venezuela so I don't see their performance as an embrassment, just what was to be expected.

Santa Cruz and then Cabanas were deadly against Colombia. I've never seen Colombia picked apart like that before.

Since I didn't see it, I will have to take everyone's word who did, but that is about the most kind explanation for the loser in a 0-5 trouncing that I believe I have ever seen, M. :blink:

Yesterday was one of the saddest days I've experienced following Colombian futbol. Yes the disappointments in World Cups 94 and 98 were great but at least then the team didn't embarass itsef like last night. Things started out all right for Colombia but then Dominguez missed that penalty kick. It looked more like a backpass to the goalie than a penalty to me as he hit it without any conviction. Then Paraguay began to pick us apart with their speedy counters. Like others have said Ivan Ramiro Cordoba has never been beaten like he was last night. He, yepes and Calero are supposed to be the solid heart of Colombia's defense but they had no answers to Paraguay's counters and the ability of their forwards to find space.

This just goes to show you how useless it is to try and use friendlies as a way to gauge a team's strength. Colombia not only beat Paraguay 2-0 a few months ago but had looked good in their other friendlies this year too which was giving we fans plenty of optimism heading into this Copa America. Misplaced optimism as we found out last night. The team looked like they just met before the game and had never practiced together before. No heart, no organization, no intelligence and in the end no goals. An absolutely embarrassing performance from my cafeteros. Sure they had the ball but as others said Paraguay, except for a few chances from Edixon Perea, never allowed them to get close to goal and then they'd hit them on the break and caught Colombia off guard. And it doesn't get easier as now we must face Argentina. Let's hope Pinto and the team forget last night's game and show some pride on Monday.

columbia went into this vicious cycle after paraguayan scored on counter attack. then they push more and give up more counter attack opportunities. paraguay has a fast forward so their entire team relied on him, what a bunch of scumbags (pardon my language).
the game was one of the most boring international matches i had to sit through.

I thought Argentina-US was more boring than Paraguay-Colombia. As a few others have said Colombia tried taking the game to Paraguay but ran into that tough Paraguayan defense and got burned on the counter. We saw why Independiente got rid of Vladimir Marin last season, he can't defend. Colombia put him in to bolster their offense in the second half but he kept getting exposed defensively by the smart Paraguayan team.

I thought Argentina-US was boring because it was one team doing all the attacking and the other just putting numerous players behind the ball and hoping for a long ball to spring their lone forward on a counter attack. It was extremely hot and humid in Maracaibo yesterday and Argentina realized that and paced themselves through the game that is why they were fresher at the end than the US who expelled all their energy in the first hour. I'm satisfied with Argentina's win. It was a good way to start the tourney off, not too tasking a game but one which required the team to think and probe and find the openings against a well drilled defense.

In a tournament like this we say in Spanish you want to go de menos a mas, from less to more, in other words you don't want to start off playing too well. Build yourself up to that maximum level. That was a problem Argentina had in the last Copa America and in Germany 2006, the team began very well and crushed it's opponents but it is hard to maintain that level of play through the 6 (Copa America) or 7 (World Cup) games required to win the title. I like how the team began this tournament, a comfortable win but not too comfortable and one where no injuries and only a few cards (one per team) were issued.

I think the US played a lot better than people here will acknowledge. Lots of possession, lots of tight marking, good ball movement--that's what I saw. At least for the first hour, Argentina certainly was not doing all the attacking. Yes, it's not the best US lineup, but except for one free kick this team stayed together and kept one of the best teams around in check for 60 minutes. That's nothing to sniff at.

if US didnt run out of gas...
that dm for dm sub was probably just for fresh leg, kinda an odd move in international football, but that's the quality of this US team. It's got some potentials, but not refined yet.

gotta watch out for columbia, although their lost in the first game really hurt them. You basically need 4 points to get to next round, so their only chance would be to draw a point from argentina, this is like dealing with a cornered dog... (no disrespects for the columbians, just an analogy)

Seems there is a South America bias here, but that is understandable. :P

This is a tournament and to fully evaluate the success or failure of a team, let's see all the games play out.

I don't agree with the comparison with this effort to the '94 US team. In '94, we had our very best players giving a great performance for their skill level to make things interesting from a scoreline approach. Here, we have decidedly inexperienced guys getting a nod after we just won a pretty decent international tournament with mostly other players.

To me, this speaks to the actual development and depth of the US program in the last decade. At least we have a second squad of semi-viable players to compete at this level. Maybe not win or look especially dangerous, but they did compete. Could anyone imagine what our second string would have looked like in the '94 WC? Golly!

This tournament will be invaluable for their development. It is just curious to hear people bemoan the fact we sent this squad to Copa. After sitting it out so many years and enduring criticism for not sending a team, this should be welcomed by football fans. The scheduling logistics with Gold Cup, MLS and the Eurpean off-season made this a difficult task and I think USSF has tried to approach it as best they could. But then again, I am a true USA homer!

Wow the US gets beat 4-1 and some people here are proud of the performance? That is just baffling to me. You know it was Yogi I think in one of these threads who showed the US team wasn't as far removed from being a first choice team as many would believe. Only Dempsey, Beasely and Donovan were really missed by the team as many of the others who played against Argentina are contending for starting positions yet they still were easily beaten by Argentina. As a comparison Mexico against Brazil also used a nucleus of players who had never played together and who lacked international experience yet that team was able to beat Brazil. Ok I know head to head the US defeats Mexico and El Tri has greater depth but I can't think of any other country's fans who would look at a 4-1 loss and say we did all right! I am not trying to start a war here between US fans and those of other teams I am just trying to understand how a 4-1 loss could be looked at in such a positive way?

I hear you, Sergio. Thing is we know the US team still has a ways to go before they can really compete with teams like Argentina. Still, I remember way back in 1986 when Canada lost to France 1-0 in the World Cup. The Canadian's were happy, claiming it was a good game for their team, because they had only allowed one goal.

I was left wondering what game they watched, as it was only poor finishing by the French that kept the game from being a 6-0 route.

While appreciating the experience the young pups are getting in Venezuela, I've moved beyond the moral victory philosophy.

For the last 15-20 years, the USSF has concentrated on developing a national team program that can regularly qualify for the WC and be a dominant, if not the dominant, team in CONCACAF.

Mission accomplished. Well done.

But, it's time to stop patting ourselves on the back and move on to the next stage, which is to develop a national team that is among the best in the world and a contender in the WC.

Very well said shelsoccer, US soccer has made great strides forward but that is why myself and apparently others here were upset the US missed out on the golden opportunity of this Copa America and instead sent a team of reserves. I'm not going to sound liek a broken record and repeat what I said before but both shelsoccer and Sergio make a good point that a 4-1 loss isn't really a "moral victory." Let's see what Bradley can do to improve the US' performance in this next match against Paraguay.

This tournament will be invaluable for their development. It is just curious to hear people bemoan the fact we sent this squad to Copa. After sitting it out so many years and enduring criticism for not sending a team, this should be welcomed by football fans. The scheduling logistics with Gold Cup, MLS and the Eurpean off-season made this a difficult task and I think USSF has tried to approach it as best they could.

Vince is right on.

I can remember going back for many years fans glamoring to get us in the Copa. Why? For the learning experience. Is there any one here that thinks we could win it even with the regulars? Given who we had we did pretty good. True we pooped out, but tht might be expected.

I think sergio and others are overlooking two main items:

1. Is the the importance of the Gold Cup as a qualifier for the Confederations Cup in '09.

That's a ready made tourney for some major opponents to be played in the same venue as '10. something not to be overlooked.

2. As Vince points out the scheduling problems.


and shel

But, it's time to stop patting ourselves on the back and move on to the next stage, which is to develop a national team that is among the best in the world and a contender in the WC.

so how would you do that? You would place more emphasis on Copa than the Gold Cup? Given the prize of the Confed Cup I think not. So it seems I also disagree with Merengue.

IMHO BB is doing it right. Now is the time to see who might be motivated to step up over the next three years, or have the potential to do do. If that means taking a licking so be it. But I thought the US played decent up until the 3rd goal. Benny & Bornstien got to shine a bit, Demerit showed he belongs in the running,etc.

That's what most of us looking for positive points are happy about. Not the score line.

Now, this part about this team "not being far removed from a first choice US team" is the biggest load of crap I have seen on these boards since the start of this venue. What utter nonsense! Get a grip on reality, or at least learn the US player pool.

I will agree with those who say there is no morale victory in the 4-1 loss, but let's try to maintain some semblance of reality here.
Only 3 US starters were missed on the one hand, but the team was soundly trounced on the other hand??? WTF?????

Another silly bunch of balogney: The Mexican team didn't bring a much stronger or more experienced team than the US but somehow masterfully beat Brasil anyway???? Are you freakin' kidding me?? Are all you guys buying this crap? Reality has left the building gentlemen.

And, just why in the world is anyone the least bit surprised that one of the top teams in the world, playing at or near full strength in their home region, smacked our maybe B team??? Hell it isn't even a full B team because it is too early to tell how many of these guys will even make a top US 22 or 23 man roster as we move through this year and next.

Hopy crap. Sergio, you would have made a terrific propaganda artist for the former Soviet Union! They used to just excel at taking utter fantasy and making it sound like fact. Good job! Whew! Amazing.

The US team regularly beats Mexico, so what? We've played them and played them time and time again. The US players know the Mexican team like the back of their hand by now. If Bradley had brought a full strenth squad to the Copa, does anyone really believe they would have beaten Argentina? I certainly don't.

They could have, maybe, if they would have played their top game, and the Argies took them lightly. Was losing 4-1 a moral victory? Who the hell claimed that one? No, it was a lesson in humility. A lesson for the players involved that as much as they may be professional players, they are not a good as they could be, not as strong as they should be, and need to take their game up a notch if they ever expect to gain a spot on the first team.

At this stage, that is exactly what US needs to work on, and that is exactly what Bradley was thinking when he selected these guys. They aren't going to get better simply by taking the same players over and over again. The first team players needs to have challengers for their positions, or we run into the Donovan syndrome, a bunch of players who are happy with their level of play, because they are on top of CONCACAF, and qualify for the World Cup every time round.

The US needs to work on their depth until Lalas' claim that MLS is comprable to the Primership is a fact, not due to imported players, but because the level of the American player has risen to that level. It's not going to happen over night, but this Copa America may just be the first step in a long and painful journey towards that goal.

First of all, I'm not sure any U.S. fans on this board are "proud" of a 4-1 loss. I certainly am not. However, some U.S. fans also recognize how far the national team has come in the past 10 years. That development is a source of pride for a lot of fans.

Regardless, I have no idea how anyone could argue that this U.S. team is only missing 3 starters or is anywhere close to full strength. At BEST, the Copa America team has 4 or 5 players with a CHANCE to start. Realistically, Bornstein is the only current first-choice player, while Fielhaber, possibly Clark, possibly Johnson, and possibly Conrad could win starting roles. The U.S. is missing 5 of its likely top 6 attacking players (Donovan, Dempsey, Beasley, Convey, and Ching, with Johnson being the only one present). The team is missing its most experienced central central midfielder (Mastroeni). It is missing its likely starters in central defense (Onyewu and Bocanegra) and its top goalkeeper (Howard). It is also missing its top 4 right backs (Cherundolo, Hejduk, Albright, and Simek). Obviously, few teams ever have EVERY starter for an international tournament, but I think it's pretty clear that the U.S. is much more shorthanded than any other team at Copa America.

If you want to criticize the U.S.'s approach to Copa America, then by all means, do it. Frankly, I agree! However, any attempt to imply that this is a close approximation of the first-choice U.S. squad is simply factually inaccurate.