Michigan Herp. Thread, Reptiles, Amphibeans and the like

[Drew]

This is my favorite topic, and since snakes are so hard to find here in Michigan, I want your help with a few things.

1. Any Massasauga rattlesnake hideouts? My goal in life is to photograph some in the wild.

2. I saw four HUGE turtles dead on M55 going over the hill before Tippee dam. They were yellowish, 10" carapace. I thought it was the eastern box but, DNR lists them as up to 7.8" caracpace. Any ideas?

3. Any other snakes sightings and what type of habitat they were in would be appreciated.

4. We are looking for evidence of BF, but the DNR can say with conviction that there is only one venomous snake in Michigan, Why couldn't there be a population of Timber Rattlers or (other species) in the hills of N. Michigan. there are isolated populations on the same latitude as us in New Hampshire.

[Paulw]

Ohhh..cool thread!
The turtles could have been wood turtles. They have a very distinct black and yellow carapace, and when I was growing up in Paris(north of Big Rapids), they were very common along the Paris Creek, and Muskegon River.
Sadly...like so many things, in the last 20 years the population has apparently plummeted. Last summer, I took a hike along the creek for the first time in 10 years...and should never have done it:( All of my favorite places seem to be gone, and the creek is simply barren compared to what it was like when I was growing up. There were NO frogs or toads to speak of, and loggy areas that used to be crawling with salamanders..you could not find a single one. I think though..the turtles were the most depressing...there is a section that when I grew up, never failed to have at least half a dozen turtles around..year after year, big ones, small ones...
Last year, while the hole is still there....not a single turtle along the entire length of the creek.
Really bummed me out.
On a brighter note...at one of our primary research locations last summer, a colony of 5 lined skinks took up residence in the cement blocks used to line the fire pit, as well as the wooden log benches next to it! Really cool lizards, and the only one commonly found(well...at least, in places!), in Michigan.
Here is a pic I took on one of the stumps right where we were sitting!

[StacyF]

Could they have been soft-shelled turtles, Drew? I've seen them before at least a foot across, but the ones I've seen were more of a light olive-brown color.

As far as the Massasaugas go? I think they could be anywhere. Jim was bitten by one as a kid down south of Battle Creek, my grandpa ran into a bunch of them right up here years ago on a lake, and they're up north as well. I think your best best would be to search wood and brush piles out in the country, but I don't know of any areas with particularly high concentrations of them.

[Drew]

Not soft-shelled turtles for sure.

The carapace was too 'humped'

Definitely not snappers either.

It's funny, I've had two people tell me where to find massasaugas, and both times they turned out to be Northern Water Snakes. I think that it may seem that they are findable, but in reality, most people think any brown snake, with a pattern on it is a Massasauga. So there fore most reports of them are misidentifications, So I think they are rarer than most people think. Especially since 95% of people will kill them on sight. (and any snake for that manner)

I thought 5-Lined skinks were just a thing of the past, in fact, I didn't even know there were lizards in Michigan, until last week. That is an absolute freak of nature, I think the idea that a lizard can even exist up here in Mich. is a miracle in itself. What county did you find them in Paul?

I've got an area 5000 acres that I have access to, with two lakes fully enclosed on the property. The lakes were created in the 30's by damming up some creek, anyway, there are hundreds of huge, bright red painted turtles. I've seen painted turtles, and these must be some red-morph, because they have red everywhere, there is hardly any yellow. It may be some semi-isolated sub-species or something.

This website is the greatest web discovery I have ever found. It is in my favorites.

http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servle...ve?init=Species

[Paulw]

Here is a pic of the plastron of a wood turtle. Is it possible they were flipped over, and you were seeing the yellow of the plastron? This is the only noticeably yellow turtle I can think of, other then a softshell.

Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand)

[Paulw]

Oh..I bet it may have been a box turtle!
Here is a pic I found on the net:


Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand)

[Drew]

Yeah,
It had to be a box turtle. It was way up on a hill so I'm guessing they were trying to cross the road and got whacked

[Drew]

Tippy dam, just below the lower dam or spillover. I kept seeing these huge turtle heads just stick up out of the water, right in the fast water below the spillway, then slowly lower back down. I'm guessing snappers, anyone care to argue that?

[Paulw]

I would think so. They are the only really big turtles we have, and maybe they are feeding on dead steelhead or something?

[Drew]

Anyone who sights snakes, must report here. Type, location etc...
If it's in a secret area, just say, "it was in our secret area."

[Paulw]

Ah, then I have a report.
Large blue Racer, long enough to stretch across a typical two-track. Sighting was in the Yankee Springs state game area, near Deep Lake. It was last Thursday, so...April 19.
I had forgotten how fast those things are!

[StacyF]

This past Monday afternoon... spotted cat in window looking at ground, tail twitching, ears twitching. Garter snake appx. 18" long hanging out in the sun along garden fence, then apparently eating ants.

[Drew]

Here are my top snakes that I would like to find.

1. Massasauga
2. Hognose Snake
3. Rat Snake

[Paulw]

Is that just this year, or all time?
I've seen the first two..never came across a Rat snake yet.

[Drew]

I'd like to get them out of the way this year. But I think it will be a lifetime endeavor. Where did you see the first two?