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Pages: (2) [1] 2  ( Go to first unread post )

 FOUR FLIES ON GREY VELVET (1971), Argento on Blu . . .
Wade Sowers
Posted: Jan 7 2012, 01:34 PM


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I asked the person who runs the 10,000 Bullets site about the Region Code of this Blu-ray and he replied it will be Region Free according to the Shameless people on their forum. I have seen no reviews yet.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Four-Flies-Grey-Ve...25964665&sr=1-1

This post has been edited by Wade Sowers on Jan 7 2012, 01:36 PM
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Marshall Crist
Posted: Jan 8 2012, 12:31 AM


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What is Shameless' track record like? Any reason to think this will be a nice presentation?
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Wade Sowers
Posted: Jan 8 2012, 12:31 PM


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Shameless is a British company that has only put out a couple of Blu-rays - here is a DVDBeaver review of their CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST (1979) which I have not seen, but it seems they did a good job:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film3/dvd_reviews...l_holocaust.htm

Lots and lots of discussion on Blu-ray.com about this project:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/united-kingdom/17...ber-2011-a.html

This post has been edited by Wade Sowers on Jan 8 2012, 05:52 PM
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Marshall Crist
Posted: Jan 9 2012, 12:06 AM


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Wonder if I should get this from Amazon UK, Diabolik, or elsewhere?
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Andrew King
Posted: Jan 9 2012, 07:39 PM


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There is nothing in those Forums (which include press release info) about where/why the missing footage is 'lost', and thus can only be included as SD -which might be VHS sourced, or all the way up to digibeta?! "DVD quality inserts"
Are those portions of the negative completely lost, and is there no 35mm (or even a 16mm) print anywhere which contains this 'missing' footage? If the footage is available (which they seem to hint at in Cult Labs posts) and it is just there is no budget to scan the pieces frame by frame (not on the telecine) and insert them in as full HD, then they have just not asked around for those folk who would do it for free and have the time/kit to do it for an ultimate HD Master. Doh!
I have the German big box DVD and the MYA DVD and will happily buy this upgrade, but once again have the sense of a missed opportunity, this time from Shameless and KOCH, to call in all favours from every collector via all the Forums to locate the best possible version of 'missing' footage (and in other cases of previous 'rare' films even the audio), all this in lieu of a full explanation that is.

This post has been edited by Andrew King on Jan 9 2012, 07:57 PM
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Vincent Pereira
Posted: Jan 10 2012, 12:19 AM


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QUOTE (Andrew King @ Jan 9 2012, 07:39 PM)
There is nothing in those Forums (which include press release info) about where/why the missing footage is 'lost', and thus can only be included as SD -which might be VHS sourced, or all the way up to digibeta?! "DVD quality inserts"
Are those portions of the negative completely lost, and is there no 35mm (or even a 16mm) print anywhere which contains this 'missing' footage? If the footage is available (which they seem to hint at in Cult Labs posts) and it is just there is no budget to scan the pieces frame by frame (not on the telecine) and insert them in as full HD, then they have just not asked around for those folk who would do it for free and have the time/kit to do it for an ultimate HD Master. Doh!
I have the German big box DVD and the MYA DVD and will happily buy this upgrade, but once again have the sense of a missed opportunity, this time from Shameless and KOCH, to call in all favours from every collector via all the Forums to locate the best possible version of 'missing' footage (and in other cases of previous 'rare' films even the audio), all this in lieu of a full explanation that is.

My guess is that the Shameless Blu-ray is based off the same master that Mya used for their very good looking but apparently unauthorized DVD release a couple years ago. That release was missing seemingly the same amount of footage that is mentioned for the Shameless release as being mastered from an SD source. When MYA first released their version, of course no mention was made of footage being missing, but when folks got the discs and noticed the missing material, only THEN was the excuse that "print damage" led them to remove the offending "damaged" material, thus accounting for the missing material (they never did explain why the audio was so abysmal, though). I'm guessing that Shameless was given the same incomplete HD master that Mya used as the source for their DVD, and thus they had to grab the missing 40-seconds from a standard-def source. Since the "missing" footage on the Mya release seems to fall only at reel changes, I'm not convinced that there was actually such bad "negative damage" at those moments that many, MANY feet of footage had to be wholesale dropped in these cases- rather, I'd imagine that it was simply a bad edit job in joining the reels together after the scan was complete and nobody caught the mistake until it was too late.

Vincent

This post has been edited by Vincent Pereira on Jan 10 2012, 12:21 AM
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Domenick Fraumeni
Posted: Jan 10 2012, 11:41 AM


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Doesn't Argento himself own the rights? Surely, someone connected with him, or maybe even with Paramount, could find some decent elements?

This post has been edited by Domenick Fraumeni on Jan 10 2012, 11:42 AM
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Vincent Pereira
Posted: Jan 10 2012, 03:12 PM


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They supposedly went off the negative, which is supposedly damaged. It may well be, it just seems odd that such a large section of it would be so damaged as to necessitate it being completely lopped off the film. Modern film scanners are very gentle, and even highly damaged negatives (i.e., THE GODFATHER) can be safely scanned and then have the damaged fixed digitally.

Vincent

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Marc Edward Heuck
Posted: Jan 11 2012, 10:44 PM


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This is only rumor, but I had heard tell that the MYA master was for TV, and those missing seconds were not at reel changes, but moments where the broadcaster's logo was superimposed on screen and which they wanted to remove lest people think this was just a bootleg of a TV airing.
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Eric Cotenas
Posted: Jan 15 2012, 05:24 AM


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--------------------
Follow me on Facebook. For Twitter-er-ers. Check out my CineVentures Blog. Review Archive: A-Z.
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Marshall Crist
Posted: Jan 15 2012, 01:05 PM


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QUOTE (Marc Edward Heuck @ Jan 11 2012, 10:44 PM)
This is only rumor, but I had heard tell that the MYA master was for TV, and those missing seconds were not at reel changes, but moments where the broadcaster's logo was superimposed on screen and which they wanted to remove lest people think this was just a bootleg of a TV airing.

I will bet you ANYTHING that is the case.
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Vincent Pereira
Posted: Jan 15 2012, 05:28 PM


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QUOTE (Marshall Crist @ Jan 15 2012, 01:05 PM)
I will bet you ANYTHING that is the case.

So then the question becomes, why wasn't Shameless given access to the pre-broadcast master without the logos since their version is supposedly legit?

Vincent
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Darren Gross
Posted: Jan 15 2012, 08:16 PM


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QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Jan 15 2012, 05:28 PM)
So then the question becomes, why wasn't Shameless given access to the pre-broadcast master without the logos since their version is supposedly legit?

Vincent

Exactly. This smells like yesterday's fish.
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Marshall Crist
Posted: Jan 15 2012, 10:33 PM


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QUOTE (Darren Gross @ Jan 15 2012, 08:16 PM)
QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Jan 15 2012, 05:28 PM)
So then the question becomes, why wasn't Shameless given access to the pre-broadcast master without the logos since their version is supposedly legit?

Vincent

Exactly. This smells like yesterday's fish.

The premise or the release?
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Derek Botelho
Posted: Jan 16 2012, 02:17 PM


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I know Paramount has a print of this. And they still hold the rights in the states. I can't believe they wouldn't license it, they don't seem interested in doing anything with it. Annoying...
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Adam Tyner
Posted: Jan 16 2012, 02:40 PM


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QUOTE (Derek Botelho @ Jan 16 2012, 04:17 PM)
I know Paramount has a print of this. And they still hold the rights in the states.

Is that still the case? Don May Jr. said he heard from Paramount legal that they lost the rights a while ago.

You'd think this is something Olive would've leapt on, given their relationship with Paramount, if they could.

This post has been edited by Adam Tyner on Jan 16 2012, 02:41 PM
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Darren Gross
Posted: Jan 16 2012, 07:45 PM


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QUOTE (Marshall Crist @ Jan 15 2012, 10:33 PM)
QUOTE (Darren Gross @ Jan 15 2012, 08:16 PM)
QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Jan 15 2012, 05:28 PM)
So then the question becomes, why wasn't Shameless given access to the pre-broadcast master without the logos since their version is supposedly legit?

Vincent

Exactly. This smells like yesterday's fish.

The premise or the release?

Hi Marshall...

Neither & both actually. If the theory above is indeed the case, then it sounds more like MYA or Shameless have been sold a bill of goods by some person or company who got a copy of an HD broadcast master from a TV station, and may now be falsely claiming to be the Italian rights holders. That of course, is IF the trimmed material was indeed cut because it was were station idents were placed. We're still kind of guessing here...

The studio or licensor that owns it would never remaster something in HD, then burn in logos and idents for a single licensee, and not have a clean master without them. Plus idents and graphics are solely the domain of the networks that air the licensed films. They would, in 99.9% of the cases be provided with a clean HD clone (or file) by the studio/licensor.

For example, where I work, we will work with ABC family and other networks to create specially edited TV versions that meet their exact needs as far as standards & practices, language, censorship, etc. as this can vary a bit from network to network. So, our folks will create a special ABC Family TV master that is the exact running time they need, with the edits they have requested. Varisped if need be, as well, and with all the commercial fade-outs and act breaks. Never do we add network logos, idents or anything like that. Even if we were to do that, we have clones, masters, protection masters and transfer masters that are clean and completely uncut or fudged with.

Someone that sells you rights to something they claim to own with network logos on it, will probably be coming back to you with offers of bridges you can buy or beachfront property.

wink.gif

This post has been edited by Darren Gross on Jan 16 2012, 07:47 PM
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Derek Botelho
Posted: Jan 17 2012, 12:29 AM


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QUOTE (Adam Tyner @ Jan 16 2012, 02:40 PM)
Is that still the case? Don May Jr. said he heard from Paramount legal that they lost the rights a while ago.

You'd think this is something Olive would've leapt on, given their relationship with Paramount, if they could.

OK well that may be. Last I heard they had a print, someone I went to college with was working there and was going to make a telecine of their print for his own usage and got fired from his job, or so the story goes...
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Eric Cotenas
Posted: Jan 17 2012, 10:16 AM


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I'm pretty sure Shameless licensed it from Surf Film.


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Follow me on Facebook. For Twitter-er-ers. Check out my CineVentures Blog. Review Archive: A-Z.
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Andrew King
Posted: Jan 30 2012, 02:09 PM


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Mine has dispatched from Amazon UK, will give it a spin upon arrival.
Shame (nearly a pun intended) on the distributor and Marc Morris for not coming completely clean about the whole shambles of this release. laugh.gif
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