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 Dark Side's case of plagiarism thread closed?
Steve Genier
Posted: May 22 2005, 08:26 AM


Fledgling Mobian


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Member No.: 231
Joined: 30-October 04



Todd, I was just wondering why that thread was closed. I think you should allow those support Dark Side to comment on this shameful act the magazine has committed. This is infomation that shouldn't be surpressed especially those who are directed affecting, and those of us that read this mag. We support Mobius, but why do you not support those of us? We should have the right to discuss this matter without fear of it being closed or edited. I'm sorry, but I believe Casey Scott is a long time member of this forum, one that many respect, why have you taken a vehicle for us members here to shoe Casey and the others involve support? Listen, I'm not trying to stir up anything that hasn't already..the last time I check Mobius is also apart of a democracy.....

This post has been edited by Steve Genier on May 22 2005, 08:27 AM


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-The Underbelly of Film!- CINEMA NOCTURNA
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Nigel J Burrell
Posted: May 22 2005, 01:46 PM


Unregistered









Steve, I also think it is wrong to keep closing down this ongoing discussion. Apart from the Anchor Bay UK forums, Mobius is the only discussion group apparently censoring our discussion of a valid cause for concern for online and genre fanzine/magazine writers. Luckily other forums are still running this saga, which is now unfolding to epic proportions as the chickens fly home to roost with a vengeance. If things progress to legal action - as seems likely - will discussion of that also be banned here?
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Todd Harbour
Posted: May 22 2005, 02:39 PM


Administrator


Group: MHVF Founder
Posts: 133
Member No.: 1
Joined: 17-October 04



Steve, thanks for your feedback, which I'm always open to. However, you're incorrect to couch this in terms of me not "supporting [readers]" -- that's a mischaracterization of how I feel and I don't know why you've made that connection. It should go without saying that I'm vehemently against plagiarism and do not support it in any way, shape or form -- especially when it impacts members of our community. The topic is part of our forum usage rules and always has been. However, I also don't support gossip, hearsay, slander, and Internet mob mentalities and frenzies. I believe in hearing both sides and treating people fairly, and giving people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. I also believe in taking conflicts directly to the source for resolution -- which in this case is Dark Side magazine, not Mobius -- and not engaging in public one-sided "light the torches and storm the castle" campaigns for purposes of strong-arming (or destroying) someone. (And I say all this having been personally defamed in the pages of Dark Side myself by inference.) As I've explained in another posting, plagiarism is a serious accusation and not something that should be thrown around lightly. People's reputations can be destroyed, and if anyone is accused of such a transgression, they're owed due process to defend themselves. I don't feel an Internet forum -- or more specifically, this Internet forum (other Internet forums can do however they please) -- is a place to publicly debate or resolve such serious issues of plagiarism, especially when both sides are not present to defend themselves. If you were the one being accused of plagiarism, Steve, wouldn't you want that same respect?
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Steve Genier
Posted: May 23 2005, 07:29 AM


Fledgling Mobian


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Member No.: 231
Joined: 30-October 04



Todd, I have to hand it to you, there is simply no arguement there from me as you have made several valid points. I was just wanting to know the reasons behind that short lived thread that seems to effect a few of the long running members here at Mobuis. Thanks for verifying your stance on this dim situation.

This post has been edited by Steve Genier on May 23 2005, 07:29 AM


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-The Underbelly of Film!- CINEMA NOCTURNA
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Nigel J Burrell
Posted: May 26 2005, 05:27 AM


Unregistered









Todd, given that the evidence is now solid and in fact overwhelming in its sheer magnitude (New York Times?! BBC?!), the matter should now be able to be discussed in a major genre-linked forum such as Mobius. Whilst obviously people should be asked not to slander certain individuals by name, surely a mature discussion should now be allowed to take place here. Offending OTT posts could be removed, but free speech should not be stifled. The silence and censorship over at another board is laughably embarrassing, the similar situation here leads one to make - hopefully wrong - assumptions that certain dodgy activities are to be tolerated and ignored, perhaps due to pressure being exerted, or some 'old pals' network being in operation. Time to prove me wrong? Of course, if you prefer you can ban me from here for being a bolshy troublemaker! ;-)
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Domenick Fraumeni
Posted: May 28 2005, 11:06 AM


Mobian


Group: Members
Posts: 2,068
Member No.: 131
Joined: 20-October 04



While I dislike seeing most any closed thread/s, I'm not too sure where exactly such a discussion would take place here. Unlike other boards, I don't think Mobius has an off topic folder, which is where this subject is taking place in the other boards. So, beyond the announcement and posting of links, it 's a bit hard to put it somewhere and still consider it to be on the topic of movie discussions.

At least that's how I see it.
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Todd Harbour
Posted: May 29 2005, 01:07 PM


Administrator


Group: MHVF Founder
Posts: 133
Member No.: 1
Joined: 17-October 04



My position hasn't changed, Nigel -- in my opinion, Internet forums haven't suddenly turned into a place to publicly debate or resolve plagiarism allegations since I last made my post. Again, there's no neutrality, there's no due process, and there's no fair representation of both sides. You really don't understand my position if you feel conditions are different now.

I also don't appreciate your manipulative tactic of suggesting I knuckle under to your position at the threat of smearing me by suggesting "dodgy activities are to be tolerated and ignored" or "some 'old pals' network [is] in operation." I won't be extorted by your cynical conspiracy theories or compromise my position by blindly following other forums just because they see things differently than I do. The words I write here are truthful and genuine, and I would appreciate you respecting them instead of concocting lies. I've made my position regarding plagiarism extremely clear, and it's outlined in our FAQ if anyone requires further confirmation. I've also made it clear that I'm no friend of the Dark Side, as they've written less than kind things about both me personally and this forum in their pages (a topic I also closed when they occurred, which I guess you've conveniently forgotten because they don't suit your allegations). I have no personal relationships with anyone in any "old pals network," and it's fantasy to suggest otherwise. Do we exchange reviews for free DVDs, books, magazines given to us by studios or publishers for publicity? No. Have we ever? No. Are we ever given favors, products, or money by studios or publishers in exchange for anything, including advertising? No. Are we associated with any DVD company, movie studio, or publisher in any way? No. Am I personally friends with anyone who works for any such company? No. Do I leverage my connection with Mobius into paid writing gigs for books, magazines, or DVD companies? No. So, where is this "old pals network"? I guess the way it works is to sling these accusations, whether they have any merit or not, and force me to defend myself, whether I want to or not. Because if they don't go answered, the smear campaign propagates -- silence equals guilt. It's react by fear or have your character defamed. Do you see the irony here?

You throw around the words "censorship" and "free speech" often, Nigel, but you're mistaken if you think a moral right to free speech extends to a privately owned and operated discussion forum with a posting policy in place that you agreed to honor as a condition of membership. You do, however, have the right to exercise "free" speech by buying your own Web space to express your opinions or host a forum where anyone can write anything they'd like. As Domenick points out, 'zines and magazines aren't our focus at this forum: films and DVDs are.
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Nigel J Burrell
Posted: Jun 1 2005, 06:26 PM


Unregistered









What a pleasant post to read on my return from a great holiday! Do you see the irony here? I hardly know where to begin to make a reply to this somewhat overheated tirade, but here goes. Well Todd, it certainly isn't my fault if 'the other parties' haven't chosen to reply to any of the points raised in certain Forums that do allow more discussion of these matters, though a few people have actually defended the accused person (see how careful I'm being not to offend anyone?). Personally I think the facts are clear here - and amazingly I haven't actually been the person(s) digging up this hard evidence, but of course you can choose to differ in your opinion, that is indeed your right. To accuse me of being manipulative is just plain wrong, but hey, say what you like, I have a thick skin, after all as you never tire of saying, this is your Forum and we have to play by your rules or be out of the gang. I have not concocted lies, dunno where that accusation came from - maybe it's more of the same 'lies' I was accused of writing about the DEADLY SPAWN DVD sound fault? I think you might find other people linked to this farrago are being more economical with the truth, at least I don't get 'poor students' to write my postings here for me. I was certainly playing devil's advocate to try to get more clarification on certain points, as my 'hopefully wrong' aside surely indicated? You answered those points - in between the vituperative comments at my expense, so that's an end to that. As for the suspicion I raised that 'maybe' some posters here hold more sway in getting certain threads closed, maybe it's paranoid, maybe it's not. You say not. I have no further opinion, and even if I did I'd clearly just be pissing in the wind. At no point did I name you personally in my thread, so don't say I have been slandering 'you', I have NOT. Please disable my membership. I have enough problems in my life to sort out without dealing with this kind of pettiness.
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Todd Harbour
Posted: Jun 1 2005, 07:06 PM


Administrator


Group: MHVF Founder
Posts: 133
Member No.: 1
Joined: 17-October 04



Nigel, if you expected me to react kindly to having my integrity questioned, which you straight-up did by saying "dodgy activities," i.e., plagiarism is tolerated and implying that I have underhanded self-serving interests in some mythical "old pals" network just because I closed the Dark Side threads, you were wrong. Those are offensive accusations -- and I'm calling them lies, because they certainly weren't true or grounded in any kind of factual evidence -- that I will react strongly to like any other human being accused of the same. Especially when I'd already honestly explained the reasons behind my decision in this thread. I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with or being unhappy about my decision; it's understandable, especially if they're invested in one side or the other. But to say those reasons are the source of my position? I can't believe you thought that wouldn't greatly upset me, and I think any other decent person would have promptly retracted the allegations and extended an apology.

I have no idea what THE DEADLY SPAWN DVD has to do with any of this and don't understand why you've even raised the issue. If you have lingering resentment about that, it's misdirected directed at me because I wasn't involved in any moderating action, and if there was a problem, I haven't heard about it. I hope that isn't what's partially fueling this confrontation.

I have no plans to disable your membership.
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Marty McKee
Posted: Jun 1 2005, 09:20 PM


Mobian Idol


Group: Moderators
Posts: 7,998
Member No.: 19
Joined: 17-October 04



QUOTE (Nigel J Burrell @ Jun 1 2005, 07:26 PM)
maybe it's more of the same 'lies' I was accused of writing about the DEADLY SPAWN DVD sound fault?

Furthermore, as the moderator of the board where the DEADLY SPAWN thread originated, neither I nor anyone else to the best of my knowledge accused you of lying about anything. I know that you know that, and I know that everyone else does too. I just wanted it on the record.


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