GW maintain the Kroot Apoc list & Tau Codex only

Just posted by Kris Sheriff on the old MSN Kompletely Kroot... Thought it might interest the board.

Hi all,
I did an update on the Kroot Codex when 5th ed came out and sent it off to games workshop.
I just got a e-mail back from Andy Hoare and he said that I had done a good job but that they would be keeping the Apoc Data sheet or folding the Kroot back in to the Tau Codex
anyway here is a link to my Gaming Clubs website where I have posted the codex.
http://www.thegamingkingdom.org.uk

Let me know what you guys think.

Kris

I found that list the other day and think its Bloody fanastic to be honest. So many ideas that I hadent even thought of.

I asked the guys running arcanacon if they would allow me to use that list but they said no

Still I think its a good one

Yeah I also saw this list a few weeks ago, it's very a good V5 update.

Comparated with it, our WIP kodex is more a V5 re-writing

Hi guys,
I did all the hard work updating the GW codex for 5th ed.

I had been bouncing around the old MSN group and liked the ideas that came up but wanted something that felt more GW and simplified as much as I could and used all the "new" 5th ed terminology.

I tried to keep the feel of the list the same as in the GW PDF ans so resisted making my own units and just worked with the stuff I had.

I planned on including the FW stuff in there as well but as I was sending it to GW I let them out so that they wouldnt be losing £££ on the sales of IA:3 if they decided to up date the PDF.

As they basicly told me that it would not be being updated I could always go back and fold it in to the list to make it more compleat?

Andy Hoare was really nice about it though and we bounced a couple of e-mails around but I think he has faced the fact that the Apoc Data sheet is the best he could do for us.

Kris

Yeah, when the apoc data sheat came out I was both super happy then super sad since knew they would not be doing a proper update for the Kroot in normal 40k.

Shounds like a good idea to me. Uber Kroot, Wetcorps and I were just talking about our 5th ed list and how the Trackers and Knarloc Riders unit could be combined into a single entry. Feel free to have a look and see if any ideas tickle your fancy

And welcome to the site!

Cheers,

I had thought about the trackers and knarloc riders issue when I started and I felt that the trackers didn't feel right for me in the list. They didn;t seem to have a role of there own other than a Shaper delivery system but then the Knarloc riders wernt right as they did not even have a Shaper!

The entry I made walks a midle ground I think. I put them in there as a replacement for both as it were and it was the only time where I felt I was treding new ground and inventing a unit rather than just fixing how one currently worked.

The way I have them they can be used to deliver a tooled up Shaper just like the old Trackers but have a use on there own as smaller units like the Knarloc riders. Not sure if they manage to satisfy the people who liked using one or the other but as the saying goes you can't please everyone.

What did you guys think of the Troop Choice and its lack of Infiltrate in perticulare?
I really wanted to keep in on everyone but it just unbalanced 5ed too much with the way rolling for first turn/tabke sides workes now. They can still get scout through Blood of the Stalker which I though should keep most peoiple happy but that is where I expected most of the complaining if I am honest.

Kris

Yep and I for one really like it

*edit* valid points made the Wetcorps post so contents removed

I was a bit suprised to be honest, I didnt even see it untill you had pointed it out For me I would have just kept it in the list because its what kroot DO! Its part of their theme and skill set, I can't think or even imagine it being over powered, You can do the same with all marine scout armies (they even have infiltrating scout bikes now!!)

And its no where near as bad as the Chaos Daemon, Death wing and all marine Drop pod armies that mean you dont even get to have the first turn reguardless of if you won deployment. You set up, have your first turn with nothing to shoot at and then get attacked with no chance to defend yourself. With an infiltrating army you at least have a proper game. The infiltrating side might not have the first turn so if they set up close then they are in trouble of getting rapid fired to death, and even if they do have the first turn they can always roll a 6 and totaly mess up the infiltrating players plans (trust me ive done it quite a bit)

I say give the infiltraters back to the basic Kroot, its part of their theme and really makes no sense that they would no longer be able to do it

As a quick responce - I agree with Turbo - it's what Kroot do, to deviate from Infiltrate is to deviate from one of the core principles of the Kroot (so therefore maybe they need a price increase???)

Edit:
I've now had a good read of your list Kris – a bit cheeky putting it on the chapter approved background! Lol!

One of the key aspects of 5th ed is streamlined and uncomplicated lists - I'm sorry to say that I don't think this list meets the expectations of a 5th ed list. Yes it explains the rules under 5th ed and tweaks a few faults, but it remains overcomplicated and deviates from Tau codex, Taros & Appoc precedents = all GW sanctioned rules.

I think it is a choice that Kris did: try to only update with the V5 rules and (almost) nothing more. It is the best way to keep the codex balanced.
Here we did the opposite choice, try to include also the V5 spirit.
It's good to have both points of view


About Infiltrator for carnivores, I think we can't change it because we use the Tau codex unit.
And as Turbo says, it is not so unbalanced and Infiltrator gives its originality to the army. If you remove it, you have a kind of orks with T3...

I think I will put Infiltrate back on carnivores for a start.

I only used the chapter approved background as I was I made the PDF to be a replacement for the one GW had and was hoping that if I made it look the part it would have more chance of being used. I do Like it thought

In what way? Those were the 2 main things I was trying to work on when I made the list. The only thing I didn't want to mess with was the IA stuff as I didn't want to step on toes but that will be getting the same type of reworking once I find the time.

What could I improve to streamline and uncomplicate it even more?

I am all enthusiastic about Kroot again now, Cheers Guys.

Kris

Love the list, I'd definitely use that with infiltrators on the Carnivores! I'll look forward to seeing the final thing!
One thing that may be useful to add to it would be a reference list of sorts, just to make things a bit easier.
Also, any reason you decreased some of the squad sizes? I usually go for large squads when putting my army lists together.
Oh, and I noticed vultures dont have deep strike there, it'd be good to either see that in me thinks, or something similar to the apocalypse datasheet and give them hit and run instead.
Overall it looks great!

Hi Joinee Dave glad you liked the list.

I decreased a few of the squad sizes to restore some balancing issues that cropped up with the altered rules, So units were just too good when they got larger and needed toning down and rather than recosting them a smaller squad cap seemed the way to go.

Just to point out how clever I was in making the list again (Sorry that should be clever and modest) Vultures are now classified as jump infantry and if you look at page 52 of your rule book you will see that all jump infantry now comes with deep strike.

Kris

Ah, ta should have noticed that with the deep striking, guess I was just having a 'special' day.
And yep, makes sence about the numbers! Although I do like the thought of 60 vultures charging in on turn 1.
I think you're trackers look very good, definitely a big improvement getting rid of snipers as the default weapon! And the headhunters definitely now work like I think they should always have really, the one poison attack rule was not good at all. Ooh, and the lack of the 0-1 limit on hunters looks useful too!
hehe, I suppose I dont need to ask why the punji traps went.

Sorry Kris - I took my feedback on this conversation over to the Kroot Kodex Forum.

...and like you I am more enthused about Kroot than I have been in a long time! It's great to be able to discuss the situation with like minded Kroot enthusiasts.

Conversion wise I get behind this Codex before any of the others I've seen honestly, I think you did a good job. You need to clear up some things on kroot numbers, you should clearly specify that the squads need a shaper and need to have certain amounts and in options say it can include this to this many more.

Keep'er evolving and keep pressing it to GW!