Really Green Water!, HELP Please!!

[Rosiemeadow]

My big pond is still very green! I have done water changes & have added Ponzyme with Barley, & Barley Peat extract....Nothing!! It's still pea soup! I was thinking of dumping the water as low as I can without harming the fish & starting over, but not sure if it will help.
It has been a good week since I added these products, should I wait & see or should it have had an effect on it by now?

[Robyn]

Is it super hot there like it is here? These are unusual times. I think the only way you'd be assured clear water would be a UV sterilizer. If I recall, your pond gets a lot of sun. You know that plants, barley, filtration, time, and more plants are the main keys to clear water. You also have quite a few fish in there so that makes it harder to get the clear water. The water changes will certainly help. A 100% water change will give you clear water, for about a week, and then it will just grow back, perhaps even stronger if your refill water has nutrients that suspended algae likes. I think your filter has a waterfall but it's pretty much straight down? In my pond, having the water celery and watercress in the waterfall helps the most to keep the pond in good shape. I also have a ton of lemon balm in the waterfall which is a terrestrial mint but it grows like a weed almost anywhere. In my smaller pond, peppermint cascades in to the pond. Try planting some mint around the edges of the pond and encourage it to root in to the pond. Fast growing plants suck up a lot of nutrition from the water. Do you have floating plants like water lettuce and water hyacinth?

[Rosiemeadow]

Thanks for your reply Robyn.
It has been very hot here also, but the pond is somewhat shaded most of the day now because the tree has grown over top. I have water hyacinth, parrots feather, anacharis, horn wart, a water hibiscus, zebra stripe reed & black taro, I also have mint growing down the waterfall.
My waterfall is not hooked up to my biofilter it is running on it's own pump, so there is plenty of aeration in there.

I am wondering if this was my fault since about a month ago when I was cleaning the biofilter, I disposed of most of the brown yucky water on the bottom. I'm thinking this was the "good" bacteria & I should have left it alone? I just wanted to have the filter clean & not put that yuck back into the pond since it is on the bottom & that is how the water returns, in on top & return on bottom, I hate this filter so much!!! I thought about getting a UV since Dave has said too for a long time now but I really didn't want the expense & they don't kill all types of Algae anyway, plus I have no idea what to get for my weird filter. Any thoughts on the size & type of UV to get?

[sabrillo]

Rosie, build a skippy and it will go away, lol.

Seriously.........

[Robyn]

It was okay to throw out the "black gold" aka pond slop in the bottom of the filter. The good bacteria will grow on exposed surfaces of filter material, liner, plant pots, waterfall rocks, etc. The good bacteria don't grow well in sun, and they don't grow well in anaerobic areas (areas with low oxygen like where all that stuff is rotting). I squirt off my biofilter materials monthly. I do have well water though so those with chlorinated city water should try adding a hose carbon filter or just swishing the stuff in pond water in a kiddie pool. Some say not to clean the biomaterials but I can't tell you how filthy mine get!

[Rosiemeadow]

Well, I spent the whole day outside with the pond AGAIN!! I changed the pump from a 922gph to a 1268gph. I saw a huge difference in the volume that was going in the filter, but alas it didn't last long once I realized I forgot to put the pre filter on it, after I put it on the volume slowed down again. I am at my wits end! It's the darn pre filters that are the problem they clog up almost on a daily basis, I am so tired of pulling both pumps out of the pond almost every day to clean them!
how do you guys get around this, do your pumps have pre filters?
Sandy, I rearranged the filter somewhat to sort of be like a skippy, I tore up some of the malta filter mats & put them on the bottom of the filter for bacteria to grow on, but there still isn't any circulation on the bottom of my filter like a skippy has...I am about ready to throw in the towel, I'm wooped!

[sabrillo]

As I recall, your filter sprays from the top and exits at the bottom. Even without the swirling action, you still get junk at the bottom?

Don't give up, you've come to far and worked too hard. I have both my pumps in a box: the 300 gallon is with bio balls (and my newly fashioned venturi that just shoots water and air back into the pond) and the 900 gallon pump sits at the bottom in a plastic critter cage with filter material and covered with a laundry bag (so the fish can't get in) then feeds the skippy. I cleaned my skippy out about a week and 1/2 ago and the bottom was just thick with sludge. To be truthful, I don't think I even cleaned it from last year when I turned that off. Lots of white wormy looking things in it also. But I don't cover mine because I've got plants growing on top of it and so who knows what kind of bugs laid their eggs there. Pulled out some leaches too! Gross stuff, but it stays really clear and I don't have floaties.

I'd really think about maybe adding another filter if you don't want to go with the UV. If it sits in the shade, I would think that you really shouldn't have green water all the time.

What is your pre-filter? Is it a box? Is it just the spongy stuff that is attached to your pump?

[Rosiemeadow]

Sandy, it is a pump with a plastic cover over the impeller & that has course filter material inside it, it just clogs up fast because of the darn locust tree next to the pond, it has tiny leaves that are falling in the pond like crazy, probably from our hot dry weather this year, I can't scoop them out fast enough!

[Otter]

Hi Rosie.

My pond has a skimmer with window screen in the leaf basket, then a very fine filter pad, then a submersible pump that can handle small solids. The pump housing has a small grate, but this is just for whatever might fall in while I'm working. Anything that gets past the filter pad is easily small enough to go right through both the pump and stuff in the biofilter. When maple buds, wings, or leaves are falling, of course, I have to clean the basket more often. I clean the basket out every week or so, the pad less often. It would be good to do both twice a week, but to be honest, I usually don't get to it.

I haven't even looked in the biofilter this year, but based on what I saw last year and the water staying very clear through spring to summer for the first time, I'm pretty confident nothing bad is happening in the bio media.

You may be able to make another prefilter stage that is easier to maintain and leave the on-pump prefilters alone. Would this work?

Take a milk crate, cut out some of the bottom and part of one side, so that you can get it past the plumbing. Leave the corners.

Use plumbers epoxy putty (grey stuff you can form like clay) to make an attachment point for stainless steel carriage bolts and wing nuts so you can put the side you cut off back on.

Plastic crates can be either polystyrene or polyethylene. Epoxy won't stick well to polyethylene, but this probably won't matter if you rough up the surface enough so that the epoxy has a mechanical grip even if it won't really adhere. You can even drill small holes to give the epoxy a good grip. Hot glue is also polyethylene, so it should stick if the epoxy will not.

Use nylon fishing line or stainless wire to sew filter pads onto the frame you made from the crate. If you weren't able to cut the crate so that there aren't any gaps where the side goes back on, you can use epoxy putty and the pieces you cut off the bottom to complete the frame. If you want to get really fancy, you can use pieces from another crate (or something) to make a holder for each filter pad instead of sewing it in. Depending on what you're trying to filter, window screen may be better than filter pads. You can get all sorts of filter mesh from McMaster.com if you want a finer screen.

The crate goes upside down over your pump. Put a rock on each corner to hold it down. If too much debris gets under the edge, you could use silicone or maybe liner seam tape to make a gasket.

I hope this idea helps. I'm honestly not sure when I'll be back, so I tried to give you enough detail in case I'm not here again for months. I hope that didn't make it too confusing.

See also "no niche skimmer". http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.p...o-niche-skimmer

[Robyn]

I made a large pre-filter for around my main pump in my largest pond. Mine is a lot simpler than Otter's. My pump has a plastic cage around it that would clog within a day if not a few hours if left alone. I used a holed plastic pond plant pot to start. Then, I bought filter material (I can tell you where I got it if needed) which I made in to a tube. I used diaper pins to hold it in a circle. I cut a square piece for the bottom. It looks like this when dirty.



I then get in the pond and put in the pump followed by two more square pieces that I wrap over the top. Yes, there are gaps. Gaps prevent a total clog from happening. I squirt the pre-filter off weekly. During spawning, I may need to do it twice a week. What does a total clog cause? If there is too much suction, and the filter material is clogged, then the pump pre-filter collapses. Here's my smaller adjunct waterfall pump in its pre-filter I made:



That was when it was brand new. And here's what happened when it clogged. The pre-filter used to be round.



I had to buy a new one of those. Now, it's happened again. For this pump, there is no bypass.

[Otter]

Ah! Do you have small flex hose on your pumps, Rosie? If so, Robyn's design makes a lot more sense. I was thinking of my pump, which has a 2" PVC union that tends to tighten up. Once you get that off, you might as well pull the pump. I thought you wouldn't want to wrestle with something like that, hence my design was all about not having to fuss with the plumbing. But if it's easy to pull the hose off, then a much simpler design like Robyns is the way to go.

[Robyn]

I don't take the pump off the hose to remove the filter material each weekend to squirt it off. I remove the filter floss, plastic pump pre-filter, and holed plant pot and leave the pump in the pond.

I used to have a ton of problems with the tubing coming off of the pump on my largest pump. The tubing is buried and cannot be changed/replaced. It's old and brittle and no longer fits over the pump. It was just a pain in the summer when it came off but, when I was in the pond in the winter, it was nearly impossible to get it back on while I froze to death. I finally fixed it with some flexible plumbing part on both ends a few years back, and it hasn't come off since! The new pump's tubing came off last week but almost never does. It comes out of the pond for the winter.

[Rosiemeadow]

Thanks for the info Otter & Robyn.I tried doing that with the pump before & it was still a pain in the butt!

I rebuilt my out take today, now I have two waterfalls! at least there is even more aeration in the pond, it really smelled in there! Here are some pics of what I did today.



New out take(small waterfall)

Filter

Better view of inside the filter with new vegetation in there. I hope this helps clear up my green mess!The nylon stocking has activated charcoal in it & the white bag in the back right has ammonia chips.

[sabrillo]

Looks so pretty Rosie. Your koi is so big already!

Where does the water from the filter go? I am assuming that the bottom return is gravity fed back to your pond somehow. I see you have a bubbler in there as well.

I think you said you said you have 2 pumps (?). I'm just trying to see what pump is feeding what, which one is going to the filter, where the waterfall' water is coming from...you know, just so I know the operation of the pond.

The water level in your filter appears very low. Can you increase the volume of water that goes to your filter? I know you added more filter material recently, but might I suggest that you head on down to the fabric store and buy the square cushion batting ( about 1 1/2 - 2 inches thick) and cut it up into 4 inch squares, doesn't have to be perfect, and just loosely pile it on the existing filter material. You have plenty of room in there still. The plants will root itself in the batting.

[Rosiemeadow]

Thanks Sandy,
If you look at the first pic you will see the Buddha sitting on the rocks, behind him is the filter, the water from the filter exits out onto the new "little waterfall" I made today, yes, I moved all those rocks off & then back on (with a little help from Frank) to make the waterfall...I am SORE!! The filter used to sit low on the ground under the window, a few feet back from where it sits now, & the out take hose ran along the ground under the boulders & into the pond, there really wasn't any water movement from this. I do have the other waterfall that you have seen before, it is to the right in the larger pics of the whole pond that gives a lot of aeration, & now so does the "little falls". The bubbler is attached to the hose that goes to the filter. So that, is my set up. The only way to get more water in the filter is to turn the bubbler off completely but it still doesn't fill up much & it is a powerful pump for this pond 1268 gph. I think I have to give it time for the bacteria to grow again, hopefully that will clear it up, it does actually look a teeny weeny bit better today...fingers crossed