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 Goldfish, mixing fish
redblazer37
Posted: Apr 5 2012, 04:04 PM


Newbie


Group: Full Members
Posts: 1
Member No.: 5,899
Joined: 5-April 12



Being a total novice to ponding, I don't even know what would be a good fish combination for a small 6' x 4' 2' deep pond which I recently inherited with my new home. I am anxious to get started but need all the help I can get. I live in NY where we have hot Summers and rough Winters as well and I would like to keep my fish out all year if possible. What kind and how many fish should I purchase?
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Robyn
Posted: Apr 5 2012, 05:15 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 9,778
Member No.: 1
Joined: 1-September 03



Welcome to the forum!

Your pond is only a few hundred gallons (no more than 300 if the sides are straight down). Has the pond been cleaned? Are there any plants and animals in there already?

I personally would get native fish like rosy red minnows in a smaller pond. If you want goldfish, you'll need a good filter system. Start with only a few fish, literally maybe four to six fish is all. Get smaller single-finned goldfish which include common, comet, and shubunkin goldfish. See how they do for a year (assuming predators or other problems don't get them) before adding more if you feel the need. In a few years, the goldfish will want to spawn, and then you may have too many goldfish and need to find homes for some. Or, hint, you could just build a bigger pond now to save trouble later! laugh.gif

Good luck!


--------------------
Robyn, Analytical Chemist, Zone 6/7, Maryland
Servant to 5 cats, 2 rabbits, 3 guinea pigs, 3 chickens, 2 mice, 1 redbellied turtle, 3 freshwater aquariums (65, 50, & 20 gallons), 2 saltwater aquariums (6 and 12 gallon nano cube reefs), 7 outdoor ponds (1800, 153, 50, 30, 20, 20, & 12 gallons), 1 indoor pond (50 gallons, winter only), crickets, mealworms, and hundreds of fish (of about 18+ species), amphibians, snails, shrimp, corals, crabs, worms, and so on in those aquariums and ponds. A mostly full list of my current animals is at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/animals/animallist.htm

fishie.gif ribbon.png
http://www.fishpondinfo.com
http://www.pondshowcase.com
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Broxandval
  Posted: Apr 6 2012, 04:14 AM


Daveandval


Group: Senior Members
Posts: 4,439
Member No.: 4,124
Joined: 1-November 08



Welcome to the forum Redblazer37 from the UK
Seeing as you have sort of been dropped in at the deep end so to speak, can we recomend you a good book to help you with your new hobby.
I always find its better to learn about a subject first and what better way than a darn good book.
It's one that explains every aspect of goldfish from the novice to the expert this book has every aspect of the hobby covered from which ever end of the hobby that your at, I would describe it as the Goldfish Keepers Goldfish Bible o to speak.
I will add the ISBN so that you know which to get, its written by a Vet concidered one of the greats of the koi world Dr Eriik L Johnson DVM:-

Fancy Goldfish A Complete Guide To Care and Collecting.

Authors Dr Erik L Johnson DVM and Richard E hess. Photographs by Fred Rosenzweig.

ISBN.1 85974. 957.7

If you buy this book I promise you that if you read it you will fast become an Aquarist on your way to being a senior one.
Ourselves we are koi keepers but I bought this book especially because it touches so well on every aspect of their humble cousin the Goldfish !!!.......

rgrds

broxandval
fishie.gif


--------------------
Weve been Keeping Koi now for 26 year's we have 20 Koi, 1 orfe. We have a russian blue type cat with while leg markings white chin etc called Pepsi and the cutest young boy cat, Jet black in colour (who has two tails) called Jack.
A growing collection of fishy art and Badger/Otter/Dolphin/koi fine art prints.
Collection of Figurines/Plates/Cups/Slates/Clocks all of them are Badger/Otter/Cat/Dolphin
Collect Benaya koi tiles.
Large Library of Koi/Koi/Fish Health Books plus another Library of Tropical Fish/Fish Health Books.
Member of the Koi Magazines Koi Hall Of Fame.
Our deceased cat family:-
RIP Suki 2005-2013
RIP Dusty 1990- 2008 RIP Dillon 1997- 2010
RIP Sammy 1989-2007 RIP Baby 1991-2006
RIP SpookyII 1995-97 RIP Spooky 1990-95
Time Zone GMT

Note:-
Vals birthday 19/3/59

http://xat.com/FishPondInfo
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sabrillo
Posted: Apr 6 2012, 10:15 AM


Super Fishy


Group: Senior Members
Posts: 846
Member No.: 5,290
Joined: 24-May 09



Welcome Redblazer.

I hope you will enjoy your new hobby. I know we all do here!. I'd go for a few goldfish as they are much more interesting to watch than rosie reds. My favorites are shubunkins.

Good luck.
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Broxandval
  Posted: Apr 8 2012, 04:12 AM


Daveandval


Group: Senior Members
Posts: 4,439
Member No.: 4,124
Joined: 1-November 08



Hi Redblazer37
What depth is your pond you say 6 by 4.2 or did you mean 6x4x2 .
4ft is the minimum depth allowed for koi and goldfish to safely overwinter .
Our own is 21ft circumferance or 7ft across and 4ft deep giving us aproximately 1,000 gallon imperial which works out just a little more than US gallons.
Our koi have just completed there second winter outside with no fatalities.
However you cant stop for the winter months maintenance must carry on through including water changes vortex cleans etc.
Stopping routine maintenance can be costly in the lives of fish, I cannot understand why many people think they can over winter their koi/goldfish with non of the above

rgrds

broxandval
fishie.gif flowersmile.gif


--------------------
Weve been Keeping Koi now for 26 year's we have 20 Koi, 1 orfe. We have a russian blue type cat with while leg markings white chin etc called Pepsi and the cutest young boy cat, Jet black in colour (who has two tails) called Jack.
A growing collection of fishy art and Badger/Otter/Dolphin/koi fine art prints.
Collection of Figurines/Plates/Cups/Slates/Clocks all of them are Badger/Otter/Cat/Dolphin
Collect Benaya koi tiles.
Large Library of Koi/Koi/Fish Health Books plus another Library of Tropical Fish/Fish Health Books.
Member of the Koi Magazines Koi Hall Of Fame.
Our deceased cat family:-
RIP Suki 2005-2013
RIP Dusty 1990- 2008 RIP Dillon 1997- 2010
RIP Sammy 1989-2007 RIP Baby 1991-2006
RIP SpookyII 1995-97 RIP Spooky 1990-95
Time Zone GMT

Note:-
Vals birthday 19/3/59

http://xat.com/FishPondInfo
Top
Robyn
Posted: Apr 9 2012, 01:15 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 9,778
Member No.: 1
Joined: 1-September 03



I believe that RedBlazer meant that the pond was two feet deep. Of course, a 4 foot deep pond would be great for koi and goldfish but many have more shallow ponds. My pond was supposed to be 3 feet deep but they gave me 26" instead. I have had koi and goldfish overwinter in there just fine since 1997. If I didn't run the waterfall and use a de-icer though, that wouldn't be the case. With a 4' deep pond, if you lose power, the fish are probably going to pull through winter anyway.

Dave, water changes are great. I do 30 to 50% a week on all my aquariums and indoor pond. But, we're on a well. I really don't do water changes on my ponds, just keep topping them off. And yet, the fish not only survive but seem to thrive. We're in a drought now, almost no rain in months. The plants are shriveling up but the pond is just fine.

As far as winter routines go though, I do still get in the pond every other week in the dead of winter to clean the filters as long as the pond is not frozen over. I've been called dedicated!

We're not all as fortunate as you are with your advanced filtration system and so on. I wish I had the ability to rebuild my filter system and put in a vortex. Alack, that would require having the services of someone like your neighbor (as well as a job). I have no such help.


--------------------
Robyn, Analytical Chemist, Zone 6/7, Maryland
Servant to 5 cats, 2 rabbits, 3 guinea pigs, 3 chickens, 2 mice, 1 redbellied turtle, 3 freshwater aquariums (65, 50, & 20 gallons), 2 saltwater aquariums (6 and 12 gallon nano cube reefs), 7 outdoor ponds (1800, 153, 50, 30, 20, 20, & 12 gallons), 1 indoor pond (50 gallons, winter only), crickets, mealworms, and hundreds of fish (of about 18+ species), amphibians, snails, shrimp, corals, crabs, worms, and so on in those aquariums and ponds. A mostly full list of my current animals is at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/animals/animallist.htm

fishie.gif ribbon.png
http://www.fishpondinfo.com
http://www.pondshowcase.com
Top
Broxandval
  Posted: Apr 10 2012, 09:31 AM


Daveandval


Group: Senior Members
Posts: 4,439
Member No.: 4,124
Joined: 1-November 08



QUOTE (Robyn @ Apr 9 2012, 06:15 PM)
I believe that RedBlazer meant that the pond was two feet deep. Of course, a 4 foot deep pond would be great for koi and goldfish but many have more shallow ponds. My pond was supposed to be 3 feet deep but they gave me 26" instead. I have had koi and goldfish overwinter in there just fine since 1997. If I didn't run the waterfall and use a de-icer though, that wouldn't be the case. With a 4' deep pond, if you lose power, the fish are probably going to pull through winter anyway.

Dave, water changes are great. I do 30 to 50% a week on all my aquariums and indoor pond. But, we're on a well. I really don't do water changes on my ponds, just keep topping them off. And yet, the fish not only survive but seem to thrive. We're in a drought now, almost no rain in months. The plants are shriveling up but the pond is just fine.

As far as winter routines go though, I do still get in the pond every other week in the dead of winter to clean the filters as long as the pond is not frozen over. I've been called dedicated!

We're not all as fortunate as you are with your advanced filtration system and so on. I wish I had the ability to rebuild my filter system and put in a vortex. Alack, that would require having the services of someone like your neighbor (as well as a job). I have no such help.

Hi Robyn
The only difference in our pond is depth and that ours has a gavity fed bottom drain the filters though large are oldfashioned vortex style filters that do the job they were made to do and thats keep the water spotlessly clean.
It doesnt freeze never gets bellow 9c due to insulation, it's a case of if it isn't broke dont fix it.
Yes weve had Jeff build it for us the same as you paid the people who did yours.
OK I admit that mine is welded plastic but dont put yourself down you could achieve much the same result as we did by digging a hole fixing in place a 4" bottom drain which would go to your filters ( your main cost ) then attaching to the bottom drain a large butyl line securing it to the ground or using railway sleep.gifs to support it staked into the ground as many people do.
There would be no more fish caught in ice and freezing to death you could cover the pond
Elaine got fed up of loosing her koi so she moved them indoors into a tank for the winter running a barrel filter the temperature she has is 11c with no more of the -54c causing massive amounts of ice to form.
They will go back to her pond in the spring and the indoor tank left running ( I think ) ready for the next winter.
One beautiful report to us a few weeks ago was she cant get over just how totally vibrent colour wise he koi now are, they you could rightly say are happy as Larry.
It's better to get things right first time around than suffer the effects of winter every year knowing your going to loose fish ( heart breaking ).
Our two oldest koi 26 this year I thought would certainly die when we had the really bad winter at -10c back in 09-10 but they loved it took it in their stride.
Water changes were the order of the day so they got done each week just to clean the vortex 30% isnt much and if your pouring water in the pond slowly at a trickle then you wont loose temperature
All you need is the will to change it, then its out of the way then wiith no more loss of fish .
I too have been called totally dedicated and I suppose I am ( the same as you if you like ).
We both have a deep love of our subject mine koi yourself goldfish koi and other fish indoors.
I'm out to save fish the same as you so we are not that much different But we studied deeply the best thing for our koi after 23 years indoors prior to our move outdoors.
I had a choice when it came down to it continue indoors but in total agony when I cleaned the tank ( in the end I would have quit because I would have started to hate my koi), the pond gave us all a new lease of life and cleaing the votrex is so easy no more standing for hours at a time with 15 minute rests it takes less than 15 minutes to do what is needed then I can relax as the water trickles into the pond via the declorinator at the end I switch on the pump and UV pack away the hose and declorinator "job done".
If we can help others get things right we both feel a job well done dont we ???


rgrds

broxandval fishie.gif flowersmile.gif


--------------------
Weve been Keeping Koi now for 26 year's we have 20 Koi, 1 orfe. We have a russian blue type cat with while leg markings white chin etc called Pepsi and the cutest young boy cat, Jet black in colour (who has two tails) called Jack.
A growing collection of fishy art and Badger/Otter/Dolphin/koi fine art prints.
Collection of Figurines/Plates/Cups/Slates/Clocks all of them are Badger/Otter/Cat/Dolphin
Collect Benaya koi tiles.
Large Library of Koi/Koi/Fish Health Books plus another Library of Tropical Fish/Fish Health Books.
Member of the Koi Magazines Koi Hall Of Fame.
Our deceased cat family:-
RIP Suki 2005-2013
RIP Dusty 1990- 2008 RIP Dillon 1997- 2010
RIP Sammy 1989-2007 RIP Baby 1991-2006
RIP SpookyII 1995-97 RIP Spooky 1990-95
Time Zone GMT

Note:-
Vals birthday 19/3/59

http://xat.com/FishPondInfo
Top
sabrillo
Posted: Apr 10 2012, 10:30 AM


Super Fishy


Group: Senior Members
Posts: 846
Member No.: 5,290
Joined: 24-May 09



A bottom drain certainly would certainly be on my wishlist. I syphon out alot of waste from the bottom of the pond, something that the bottom drain would take care of...
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Broxandval
  Posted: Apr 10 2012, 08:27 PM


Daveandval


Group: Senior Members
Posts: 4,439
Member No.: 4,124
Joined: 1-November 08



Hi sabrillo
Yes a bottom drain which is gravity fed syphons the detritus from the pond floor into the vortex your first filter where all the large bits are seperated out and then drop to the bottom to be drained once a week the smaller bits pass into the next filter , then the next so all is removed , the last filter is the bio filter which prepares the water for its journey through the pump then UV-C and back into your pond.

rgrds

broxndval fishie.gif flowersmile.gif


--------------------
Weve been Keeping Koi now for 26 year's we have 20 Koi, 1 orfe. We have a russian blue type cat with while leg markings white chin etc called Pepsi and the cutest young boy cat, Jet black in colour (who has two tails) called Jack.
A growing collection of fishy art and Badger/Otter/Dolphin/koi fine art prints.
Collection of Figurines/Plates/Cups/Slates/Clocks all of them are Badger/Otter/Cat/Dolphin
Collect Benaya koi tiles.
Large Library of Koi/Koi/Fish Health Books plus another Library of Tropical Fish/Fish Health Books.
Member of the Koi Magazines Koi Hall Of Fame.
Our deceased cat family:-
RIP Suki 2005-2013
RIP Dusty 1990- 2008 RIP Dillon 1997- 2010
RIP Sammy 1989-2007 RIP Baby 1991-2006
RIP SpookyII 1995-97 RIP Spooky 1990-95
Time Zone GMT

Note:-
Vals birthday 19/3/59

http://xat.com/FishPondInfo
Top
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