Breeding Koi, do's and dont's

I have a fairly large pond and I would like to produce respectable koi for my own ponds. I don't have any pipedream of making a profit, We have Japanese Chins, we could have bred and made a bundle but that's not why we raise and keep our pets. We had them fixed instead. I'm not interested in showing koi either because it sounds stressful on the koi and owners alike. Still if I wanted to have a pond with nice koi that produced quality young I'm curious which is the better route. 1) Select a koi from a quality dealer that gets koi from reputable breeders, however these koi might have imperfections that lower their value but has pure bloodline. 2) a lesser known company that has a diamond in the rough, by their standards the koi isn't cheap and turns heads but no information on breeder. Should I look to a proven bloodline at a koi that doesn't quite measure up to all its relatives or look to a lesser site that has a well above average koi. I realise most koi, even top of the line don't produce many (if any) quality offspring.

Since you'd be breeding only for yourself, then any quality koi (but not really top of the line) would be fine. Pick the varieties that you like. Do you plan to sort and cull the young? If not, as you say, most offspring, even from top of the line koi, will be just koi, not necessarily fancy or prize worthy.

How big is your pond?

Hi wvairman
Even koi out grow ponds and as such have to be sold on , your not going to breed half tidy koi , that my friend is down to the years of experience that the Japanese breeder has.
Leave it to nature and as you know mother nature has her own ideas about things.
Also to get these koi there is the "CULL" sorting out the weak, the disfigured, the wong finnage etc etc, they are then painlesly destroyed others are then grown on for the cheaper but still nice market .
You'll come across what are known as AAA koi or A1 koi, these are the ones that are not really worth much at all and is a marketing ploy.
Your idea of selecting a koi from a quality dealer is a grand one and I as a friend applaud you for that but the purer the bloodline then the weaker the immune system.
This is caused by a small gene pool which though recent attempts are being made to rectify this.
But ths will take time and years of culling until out the weak the disfigured etc etc I think your getting the picture so forget the pure bloodline.
For one they will cost you a fortune better to go for the half tidy koi.
So sorry my friend unless you are a millionaire that can afford a koi that stays with the breeder under their tender love and care , one that has a weakend immune system, even ones from the pure bloodline. ( We once owned one that came down direct from a grand champion)..
One they market as a liniage fish .
It lived with us for many a year but was a koi that with the slightest hicup in the water would present us with problems year after year until one year we couldn't sort these problems and sadly it died.
All dealers have a rough diamond in there stock there are very nice koi to be bought , you just need the experiance to know what you are looking for thats all.
Your chasing a pipe dream my friend better to just choose the nice.
Work with what you have, work on bringing out the best in them colourwise, pattern wise etc.
Value is then governed really by how many prizes they win at koi shows if a person thnks that worth it they will pay the money but they must have providence so to speak, so that means shows and awards the higher the better!!!......
By the way we have shown for many a year if done correctly it is not as stressfull as you may think, the koi is gently tranquilized by a poduct we call elbagin prior to its journy.
Id hazzard a guess that taking a cat or a dog to the vet is probably much more stressful .
If you need advice you know the site we work on, ask the same quetion there and you'll be told the same.
"POP", that was the sound of that bubble bursting lol weve all had that dream.....
rgrds
broxandval

It was 8300 US gallons but I've reduced it to 5000 gallons for now. Dave, your answer pleases me more than you know. Go with your gut, mix it up and what happens happens. I remember our bloodline conversation from the past, now that you mentioned it. Don't want to go down that genetically inferior path. I saw a beautiful Doitsu Kikusui from a site that isn't as well known as some. It was their most expensive koi but still moderately priced compared to many places. The premium site gets their koi straight from well known Japanese breeders with many generations of breeding experience. While I might be fortunate in an occasional auction I can't afford to fill my pond with koi from the premium site I'm referring to, hence the question, what happens when you cross a pureblood from Japan (premium site ) with a respectable diamond in the rough ( site that sold the Doitsu Kikusui)? Dave, I think Israeli koi are popular in the UK as well, unless I'm mistaken?

I've never culled anything but unless I could find them all homes I guess I would have to...

Hi VW Airman
Israeli koi m'mmm what would you think if I said that they really got their act togther some years ago now and I believe I read somewhere that the Israeli koi has acctually won grand champion at the British Koi Keepers Societies National show some years back.
Our Tancho Sanke is from their stock it still has to grow some but watch this space!!!..........
The National is a show that every year people from all their respective Sections come together with their best koi to pit them against each other in all the Twelve variaties plus the Thirteenth catch all class.
It is fearcely fought with all the best koi, normally I believe it always comes down to the Kuhaku's as grand champions but for the life of me I dont know why as they are my least liked koi.
I perfare the Gin Rin variety of them but they are a classic example of breeding as you may buy a kuhaku that is perfect in every way then all of a sudden they get shimmies.
Shimmies if you dont already know what they are are litlle black(sumi) spots that start to appear from nowhere and basically scupper the Kuhaku for shows as they are a demirit
So there you are they do produce good koi which are basically identical to some of the best of Japanese stock.
What you must remember is that even the Israeli, British , Singapore, Chinese and any other Country that breed koi nowadays, all stared out with Japanses stock, which over the years they have bred culled bed culled , bred culled until they can come up with decent koi on a par with there ancesters and in doing this whoops there goes that immune system again.
Like any pedigree animal the purer the breed the more problems you get be it hip displacia , fits, Spina biffida, curved spines, eyes that fall out warts blindness the list is endless but the most horrific is the British Bulldog that should they try and give birth on their own they would die, they need a C section to deliver their puppies.
All this being the responsibility of the the Kennel club who are now having to totally re-think breeding in some cases reverse breeding under the new Animal rights Bill in the UK .
Gald your better my friend , it may be sensible for you to get the Pnuemonia jab which then covers youfor life, (weve both had it due to Val being at risk).

rgrds

broxandval

I have read Israeli Koi peak at an earlier age then fade when compared to Japanese Koi. I've had pneumonia twice in the past 8 years at a relatively young age, I don't think I could handle a third time.

Hi vw airman
You get yourslf that injection your covered forever then I wouldnt say they peak early.
You can look after colour by the use of foods that intesifiy you Hi sumi however is a different matter though I know of a South African ko expert who is experimenting with seaweed extract in an effort too do just the sdame as with Hi

rgrds
broxandval