Title: Now It's Large Marge
Description: Can this happen in 2 days?
My2cents - April 21, 2009 02:11 PM (GMT)
I literally just saw this yesterday. The day before, all was fine in the pond. The 'kids' have been coming out from their rock cave (not eating yet) but exploring. I looked in yesterday and Marge was in the shallows looking like THIS!
She was still really active that's why I couldn't get a better picture but WTH?!?!?!?
I scooped her out last night and put her in a large tub with an aerator and added some Pimafix and Melafix. She's still active this morning but I've never dealt with something soo drastic. It almost looks like a rock fell on her by the darker colors (bruising) near her tail. Now that she's in a smaller container, I can take some better pictures. Arghhh, I just want everyone to live long enough to enjoy the nice weather.
anitapond - April 21, 2009 02:34 PM (GMT)
M2C, oh my! Poor Large Marge! I'm sorry that I don't have any advice to give you for her injury, as I am new and not knowledgeable about fish diseases/injuries. But, from what I have learned, I would be doing exactly what you have done. I think it is good that she is active. I hope she recovers soon to bask in the sunshine! Good luck!
KoiKrazy - April 21, 2009 04:18 PM (GMT)
Oh that is so sad. I would do what you did too. I hope she makes it. I am tired of losing fish too. It really sucks when they make it through a hard winter only to die in the Spring. It isn't fair and I will be praying she makes a come back :-)
Broxandval - April 21, 2009 04:29 PM (GMT)
Ouch , dont like the look of this, :( could you take some shots from directly above and too both sides Please. :)
You did the right thing seperating Large Marge but if its a wound it'll take a time to heal. :)
Do you have any form of filtration where she is now ? also do you have plenty of areation ?. :)
Depending on the damage you may have to clean the wound at some stage, so do you have some oil of cloves to hand and also surgical spirit's as you'll be able to sedate her to clean up the wound with this. :)
But all this depends on your photo's.
broxandval Fishiedude Grouphug
My2cents - April 21, 2009 06:57 PM (GMT)
Well, I did a teeny water change because I don't have a filter, only aeration and I certainly don't want her to die from lack of oxygen. She's still active, so even getting a picture in her new 'hospital' bed isn't easy.
Here's what I got this morning. I'll try to take more once it stops pouring rain outside.
My2cents - April 21, 2009 08:03 PM (GMT)
Okay, please indulge me.
Here is the picture from this morning
Here is a picture from 20 minutes ago.
It might not look like it because I didn't get the exact same angle, but it looks less red and angry.
Also, the dark spots on her sides aren't as dark. She's been 'parked' over the aerator and is still 'frisky' when I wave my hand over the tub. I will do another water change and add the Melafix and Pimafix tomorrow. I ordered some antibiotic food and hopefully when the weather warms up (the weather people say by friday) she'll be ready for a meal.
Broxandval - April 21, 2009 09:59 PM (GMT)
I cant be sure but do you have any heron's near by, as it looks as though it could have been speared by a beak. :(
This would most certainly explain the bruising on the flanks and the damage to the top. :(
If not a heron it could be some other form of preditor, note the damage leading away from the main wound forwards (right to left) of Large Marge. :(
I doubt very much it was caused by a rock, best keep your eyes peeled for suspects though :ph43r:
It sounds as though you have everything in hand , keep going with the treatment she is on. :)
The antibiotic food is a very good idea it'll normally take about a week to ten days to take full effect and a few more days on top of that before you notice results :) ("remember !!!...*)
You really do need a filter on her hospital setup, adding salt will help reduce osmotic pressure on her (one dose only) and will also aid her healing but you'll have to work out how much. :unsure: :)
Keep us posted :)
broxandval Fishiedude Flowersmile Grouphug
*Note in our 20+ years of koi keeping we have had to resort to antibiotics on only three occasions, dont fall into using it everytime a fish has a problem as some folks do. :o it is to be used sparingly, hence why the Doctors dont prescribe it that often
My2cents - April 22, 2009 03:13 AM (GMT)
It didn't even occur to me that it could be something evil from the outside but now that I think of it, a couple of days ago, there was a VERY loud crow hanging around. I thought he was making noise because of the resident hawk that likes to do flyovers. I wonder if the crow looked down and saw Marge in the shallows and came down for a quick bite. It would explain why the other two fishies haven't left their cave. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. The other part of the equation is the Randy and Marge have been doing the 'love dance' and maybe that's why Marge was in the shallows (the only part of the pond that has a teeny bit of plant growth). A puzzle, that's for sure. Fingers crossed she makes it back to the big pond, healthy.
KoiKrazy - April 22, 2009 06:19 AM (GMT)
It does look less nasty in the last pictures. Do you have a net on your pond? Maybe B&V is right and it did come from a predator. That is nasty looking. I am really hoping she will be okay. I feel bad for her and YOU :( I'm betting that she will heal up and be fine in no time. I am sure you will be stressed until she does though.
Broxandval - April 22, 2009 08:40 AM (GMT)
Many years ago we reserved a nice Sanke at a fish farm down in Cornwall.
Upon arrival Jon the owner of the farm went to make a cup of tea for us whilst we went to look at our purchase. :)
I looked and saw that all was not right with our koi and opon telling Jon we netted it and to our horror it had been speared clean through the tail area before the fin. :o
Jon looked further into the vat and found another fish that had been damaged by the heron and also noticed one was missing. :(
The wound looks very similar to the damage we saw on that day. :(
There are other wound paterns for other preditors like the houshold cat, but they differ slightly. :(
Wether the crow was chancing a meal is a possibility :angry: netting as KK suggests would be a good answer but you loose some visabiltiy :( but worth it for the safety of Large Marge and crew. :)
Broxandval - April 22, 2009 03:47 PM (GMT)
You may find that when Large Marge gets better that she may not grow the bit of damaged dorsal fin back again. :(
So she may have a permanent reminder of her brush with the crow. :o
Whisper - April 22, 2009 07:05 PM (GMT)
Do you have racoons or hawks that may have tried getting her? :ph43r: Or the rock thing could be it too.
Broxandval - April 22, 2009 07:22 PM (GMT)
Don't think it was the rock senario I think she would have cleared it as it fell. :)
This looks to have happened at a far faster speed hence the preditor plus the damage. :(
Sadly goldfish and koi stand out like a sore thumb, where preditors are concerned. :(
broxandval Fishiedude Flowersmile
My2cents - April 22, 2009 08:21 PM (GMT)
Well, she's doing a headstand and not looking as perky. I did another 20% water change and added the Pimafix and Melafix and a teeny bit of pond salt. Last night, she was 'parked' over the aerator and today, she's doing the head stand and lethargic. I just found another curious piece to the puzzle. I found a dead starling under the bird feeder (the pond and tree with bird feeders are next to each other) and I've started to notice a strange large cat lurking around. Could this be the cause of Marge's wound and the bird's demise? I feel like an episode of 'CSI -The Pond Mysteries'.
tlc - April 22, 2009 08:36 PM (GMT)
That looks like a nasty wound. Poor Marge :(
Did you do a full dose of the meds or just half? She didn't freak out with the meds did she?
How big is the hospital container?
One other thing I thought of last night. Do you have anything in your hospital container like a floating plastic plant for her to hide under? She might feel a little less stressed if she didn't feel so exposed. Just a thought :)
I hope you can solve your mystery.. Flowersmile
Whisper - April 22, 2009 09:19 PM (GMT)
Yes it certainly could have been the cat.
Robyn - April 22, 2009 09:29 PM (GMT)
Sometimes we never know what happened. The cats around here are not good at getting fish but my cat will kill frogs. :(
A few years back, my koi, Colin, had a spear hole in him from the heron. Your goldfish seems to have a less precise wound but it still could have been a heron. Fish can get damaged from all sorts of animals and themselves. For nasty wounds like that, you might try some BioBandage which is a gel you can put on the actual wound with antibiotics in it.
Broxandval - April 22, 2009 10:28 PM (GMT)
I hope Robyn won't mind but whilst looking at her post about floatng Islands something. caught my eye so I copied her link. :)
On the same link I came across some floating Polyresin decoy koi/goldfish you may like to look into. http://www.aqua-mart.com/ipsi.html
They are very realistic to look at and will probably confuse any futher strikes from preditors :ph43r:
How is she doing today by the way? I noticed in your post to tlc she wasn't to well ? :o
This may be infection from inside the wound as we don't know how deep it goes.
So it may be a very good idea to go to the vet with her and give her an injection of antibiotics to help her fight the infection. :)
Maestro loco - April 22, 2009 11:57 PM (GMT)
I think I'd be inclined to check the starling over very carefully and look for signs of a hole and check the hole for a pellet. Could you possibly have a malicious kid with a pellet gun who gets a kick out of shooting living things? Cats that kill birds don't usually do it to just kill. They will normally attempt to eat it. Just a thought.
Rosiemeadow - April 23, 2009 12:00 AM (GMT)
I am sorry about Marge, hope she recovers from this, I had two beauties taken by a stinking heron, that would be my guess or the cat that cause Marge's wound.
When Big Red was recently ill with what I think was dropsy, we all though she was a gonner, but Brox told me to raise the temp of the hospital tank while using the melafix, & pima fix. (Thanks Brox!) I did water changes every three days but most important, I used EPSOM salts, not pond salt, I think that is what cured her, I also fed her peas & made a hiding plant out of plastic grocery bags, she liked that, it made her feel safe. *Cut the bag into long strips, leaving one end uncut, tie that end off with a twist tie, & hang the long dangly pieces into the water, she'll hide in it. Good luck with Marge & maybe try the Epsom salts, I swear by it now.
My2cents - April 23, 2009 02:52 AM (GMT)
Well, for the last water change, I did add in warm water and that sort of perked her up. I will get epsom salts and do another water change tomorrow. We are supposed to have a giant weather shift and by friday, it's supposed to get into the 80's and possibly the low 90's. As far as an errant bb gun pellet, not possible. My backyard is pretty well shielded from the neighbors and none have kids that are over the age of 4. I'm thinking whatever it was, came in quick because the other two fishies are totally spooked by any movement around the pond and spent all day hiding in their cave. They only came out when it was pouring rain. Will also try my hand at a faux plant for her to hide in. Ahhh, these silly fish, they sure know how to tug at the heart strings.
Broxandval - April 23, 2009 08:16 AM (GMT)
Have you a tropical fish heater as Rosiemeadow states it would be a good idea to raise the temperature for Large Marge (sorry was concentrating more on her wounds) should have mentioned that :( "Thanks Rosiemeadow",how is big red by the way?. :)
If she is perking up then hold on the injection and just feed the medicated food (don't need to stress her anymore than she is). :)
Further :- it could very well be a cat as you do have the left to right wound going through her dorsal fin. :o
Are there any wounds on the dead starling that you may have noticed. :unsure:
Over here you can buy some strips (three rows of plastic spikes), that you fix to the top of your wall and gate etc, so you'll probably be able to get them over where you are?. :ph43r:
Their trade name is Famous Prickler Strips . :)
Cat's dont like to stand on them ,it's one way of dealing with the problem and it's supposed to work rather well. :) :)
But if it's a bird then you'll have to net the pond :( :)
My2cents - April 23, 2009 02:37 PM (GMT)
This morning's update. I didn't realize how cold it had gotten last night and I feared for the worst. I checked on her and she was upside down and I thought, well, that's that. I filled a bucket with warm water and some epsom salts and gently plucked her out. She moved very slowly and so I put her in the warm water. After a few minutes, she started taking in more water through her gills and tried to at least get a little more upright. I changed her 'ICU' unit and added warm water, epsom salts, Pimafix and Melafix and some plastic aquarium plants I had left over from a tank I had a few years ago. I also added the heater. Since I could handle her, I could get a good look at the wound. It does look pretty deep but the edges aren't red anymore and it looks like it is trying to close up. If and when she perks up enough to eat, I will feed her the antibiotic food and some peas. For now, I'm hoping she's strong enough to pull through. She looked soo sweet and helpless when I was holding her.
Broxandval, I live on 3 acres with woods on two sides. Any critter that wants to get in my yard, unfortunately, can. The deer seem to like MY side of the fence and will graze inside the fenced yard. They have the ENTIRE forest to eat from, but apparently the fallen leaves in my yard are too delicious. ;)
KoiKrazy - April 23, 2009 04:20 PM (GMT)
I have never tried to fix a fish after it has been in the upside down position :-( Thats how I found poor Naval and I never told you all this but he was still a bit alive but I got my Dad to (you know what) He was very bloated by this time. OMG I cannot talk about this. I wish you all the best in your ICU unit. I am pulling for you guys.
I would net your pond so you never have to go through this again.
Deedahgrill - April 27, 2009 12:50 PM (GMT)
Hi My 2 Cents - i am sorry aboutyour fish -- i have had my own struggle with Tiger this spring -- he is back in the pond and soming around. . . . But still not out of the woods. . .
Hawks and Owls are predatory to your birds if you have Large Trees about - Owls - have to perch in very high trees to hunt. . . and they will clear your pond if you have them . . . I have learned the hard way.
I have netted the top of my pond -- not the prettiest thing -- but it keeps the birds from "dropping in" and also would discourage raccoons and hersons i believe . . .
Since I have done that - the owl has shown up a few times and just watched and watched - disaapointed that the suchi bar was now CLOSED!!
And the fish seem more confident now to come to the top . . . . foever they have been hiding at the bottom. and NEVER coming to the top .. . .
I am sorry about Marge -- I don't know if she is still alive. . . . but I hope she recovers for you. . . .
They are strong!