Title: Should I
alovefish - November 16, 2008 07:30 PM (GMT)
hi robyn i got my shubunkins on spetemeber the 1st this year and after christmas am planning to get another 1 should i i dont want my fish to be fighting .. should i get the other fish ? :unsure:
Broxandval - November 16, 2008 07:42 PM (GMT)
They won't fight . :)
Robyn - November 16, 2008 10:59 PM (GMT)
Goldfish can be nasty to each other but usually get along. How big are your fish? How big is the tank? If the tank is large enough, you could get more. Ideally, you would have at least 10 gallons per goldfish and quarantine new fish.
Broxandval - November 16, 2008 11:22 PM (GMT)
Hi Robyn / alovefish
If you mix fancy's with buck standard goldfish then yes you'll get trouble (eyes tend to disapear, fins get nipped) but I've never seen shubunkins scrapping and we used to keep them prior to keeping koi!!!... ;)
alovefish - November 17, 2008 04:39 PM (GMT)
well my fish tanks only 15 litres nd four fish and all my fish length wise is they all add up to 43 cm all together and i got 4 shubunkins 15 litres is about 3 gallons but if not i might just moved my fish tank down the self a little an dbut in a fish with a small 5 litres so tht the fish can see eachother and if they want him in and accept him/her .And robyn can u help mii sex my fish am not sure?? :huh: :blink:
alovefish - November 17, 2008 04:42 PM (GMT)
and thanks broxandval i hope they wont cos these fish are the fish tht ha lived the longest :D ..THANK U 4 YOUR HELP B)
Robyn - November 17, 2008 07:53 PM (GMT)
15 L = 3.96 US gallons
I'm afraid that isn't large enough for one goldfish. Since you already have four, I certainly wouldn't recommend another. I hope you can get a bigger tank!
If your fish are small and still fit in the ~4 gallon tank, they are probably too small yet to sex. Shubunkin males should start to get tubercles (white spots on the gill plates) when around 3 or 4 inches long (7 to 10 cm). Since your 4 fish are 43 cm total, then they may be large enough already and mighy crowded in their tank.
Broxandval - November 17, 2008 11:15 PM (GMT)
Robyn is correct 3 gallons isn't that much, your best bet would be to upgrade your tank to a three foot tank. :)
We started out with a two foot tank but quickly worked up to a three, then four now we have a rather large Aquarium 6 x 2 x 2.5 and now keep koi. :)
Don't forget if you do upgrade make sure the filtration is enough to handle the upgrade. :o
Always read on the subject, learn from your mistakes and keep a record of everthing you do, that way you'll have the peace of mind in that you are doing your best for your fish.
PS we have two koi in our setup that have been with us for twenty years now :)
alovefish - November 18, 2008 04:53 PM (GMT)
i would love a big tank so much :D but i dont have room for a big fish tank and the person said where a bought my fish she said i could have at least 6 but i said i will take 4 today and they have got loads more shubunkinss they had it looked like about 20 litre but they had at least 10 fish . And some of my fish have turbecles 2 of them have turbecles so what should i do? i was thinkin of getting loads of small tanks.....should i??? <_<
Broxandval - November 18, 2008 06:40 PM (GMT)
We live in a one bedroomed flat and in our front room we have three tanks with room to spare, two 2 x 2 x 2 tanks and our main tank 6 x 2 x2.5. :)
Our koi male and female have never mated so there is no need for anymore tanks, to breed you have to have specific conditions so though you have male and females again I doubt they will breed. :(
If unsure buy a book on goldfish and read up on the subject!!..... something we always suggest to people there are many books on goldfish each Author will say something different and it's up to the reader to pick their way through all this and make their own minds up.( weve built a library of Koi books over twenty nine books in size and can now cross reference through it). :)
There are also many fish health books a good one is the Manual of Fish health read and you cant really go wrong. :)
When Val and I first started we killed over a dozen goldfish :( and were about to give up when Val for my birthday bought the book I've just mentioned since then we've been on top of any problems. :) ;)
Robyn - November 18, 2008 07:11 PM (GMT)
One large tank would be better than a lot of small tanks for goldfish. Is the problem cost or space? If it's cost, try Craig's List for used aquariums for sale. If it's space, there are some strange shaped aquariums out there if you know where to look. It really bothers me that store employees continue to suggest one fish in a three gallon let alone six! Shubunkins can grow to 14" long; I've had goldfish that long. They won't be stunted in a three gallon tank; they'll just die from the waste accumulation long before that. Stores can get away with overcrowded conditions because they are temporary, and the tanks are usually on entire store systems with large biological filters elsewhere (not in the tank). As someone who worked at such a large store, I can also tell you that they do daily water changes and remove dead fish daily. I was always finding dead fish. They go through so many that they don't care.
As far as breeding goes, you don't need to worry in a 3 gallon tank. The ones with tubercles are males. Even if you have females, and they lay eggs, in those crowded conditions, all the eggs (and any fry that happen to hatch in protected areas of the tank or filter) will be eaten quickly.
Broxandval - November 18, 2008 07:31 PM (GMT)
You don't get many fish shops over here that loose fish if they did for one they would be in breach of the new Animal welfare bill and two they wouldn't be in business for long as people just wouldn't use them, the RSPCA are very hot on this. :)
We are very careful where we shop we have to be what with KHV,we demand exellence from any shop ?dealership we go too.
We've seen shops come and go and word soon gets round if they are bad. :)
Our nearest shop Emperor tropicals makes sure all it's staff are qualified and (the owner has a degree in fish sciences) as do all the shops we visit they have to be , I don't know about other Countries.
alovefish - November 19, 2008 05:18 PM (GMT)
both space is more then money but a 5 litre or 3 litre and i have once been aloud from a shop 12 fish whitecloud minows from brigg garden centre . is £5.oo so it cheap space a got space for 4 5 litres tht wat ma big project is for christmas . Ma bookshelf got loads of books so get rid of them and make money at least £50.oo and a will be finished what u think of that ...
alovefish - November 19, 2008 07:48 PM (GMT)
i have saved so many fish from big sealing companies i once saw this tiger barb he had no eyes and no dorsal fin i think thats the top 1 but theres lovly fish for so careless companies start a campaign that could stop fishes lives from being lost save species and lots more. but a dont think that would happen because people will not join and everthing but we will see. Am only 12 what i no but if u like it go ahead :D do u think we should do this idea. :lol: :lol:
Jayesh - March 21, 2009 04:01 PM (GMT)
I'm only 15...which means...when I joined this place I was 12 too.
And also, don't 'save' fish. I know it seems just nasty to ignore a maltreated/deformed fish, but it'll just cause you problems and may be unsuitable for your aquarium. For example, that tiger barb you mentioned will not be suitable for a community tank (despite the fact tiger barbs aren't suitable anyway) as due to it's disabilities it will have trouble feeding and will often be unable to feed as other fish will eat the food before it gets a chance. It's really best to leave them in the store and choose a good, healthy specimen so you can give it a good life. Also, if you breed a deformed fish, the fry may have inherited the deformity (if it is genetic) which will mean they will end up having unhappy lives. In fact, a lot of deformed fish suffer so much pain in everyday life, it's better to cull them, to stop them suffering.
Saving species really isn't a problem. Tiger barbs are very common with the number living in captivity, and despite some species like cherry barbs being rare in the wild, that can easily be fixed due to the high number of cherry barbs living in captivity. Due to the tiger barb's adaptability and intelligence, it has become a huge success in the wild and needs no saving. It also has a huge fanbase and there are several million tiger barbs living in capitivity as of now.
kENNY - March 23, 2009 02:41 AM (GMT)
I'm 16. ;) I joined in 2007 which means I was....14
I have since learned to put the fish above my selfish needs/wants.
Don't start that **** about Tiger barbs aren't sutible community fish....no...what most peoples problems are...they put new Neon Tetras(who are small) in with Tiger Barbs(who are big) or Bettas (who have long fins) together...and the tiger barbs are more established and/or feel insecure...so they harrass kill the other fish...I have 4 Mossy Tiger barbs
in my 29gal community
. Even though my page says Tank O' Meaness, it is a pretty peacfull tank..till everyone goes in their spawning frenzies when their fight stays with their own schools.
Jayesh - March 23, 2009 04:49 PM (GMT)
Well, disabled fish of any kind aren't really suitable for the community tank.
Tiger barbs generally fare well with fish that can stand up for themselves...for example species such as the larger short finned tetras like the cardinals, other barbs, platies, mollies, gouramis, sharks (which are another aggressive species), larger catfish like plecos and creatures like botia loaches. Personally, I wouldn't put tiger barbs with guppies or any weaker fish, especially those with long fins.
And generally, tiger barbs are less aggressive when in large groups, as they feel more comfortable. Your 29 gallon has eight tiger barbs, which is quite a large group. People with one or two tiger barbs are the ones that get the most problems.
kENNY - March 23, 2009 05:23 PM (GMT)
I do want to bump it up to 8 if I keep them and I think most disabled fish SHOULD be kept by themselves..but tiger mix well with other fish if you know how to do it....
I bought my tigers last(well actually, the cherrys were last..which I shouldn't have done)..and while I'm introducing the new ones to the 29, I'm going to put them in a 10gal for 2 weeks to QT and establish the other ones that way everything can go well...
I'm thinking about adding in 5 guppies...but not if the tigers are in the same tank...I guess I COULD setup another tank!! ;) :)
Jayesh - March 23, 2009 05:33 PM (GMT)
Wait...I could have sworn it said eight on your webpage...
But still, I'm quite surprised you haven't had trouble, especially since you have singles of shoaling fish like neon tetras, and that sort of thing is easy to spot by the tigers who may harass single small fish.
If you're planning on getting nine more fish, that's not very good since your tank will be stuffed. 24 fish in a 29 gallon is a lot.
I've only kept tigers once in a species tank, and I later traded them in for my Asian biotope (I would have put tigers in there, but I wanted to keep cherries instead, so I did...)
I obviously haven't managed to observe tiger barb reactions with other species for myself yet, so I don't know that much.
kENNY - March 23, 2009 06:14 PM (GMT)
It's ok...my webpages are a bit confusing to someone who doesn't have MY animals...
I'm not sure about what fish I'm going to have in the 29gal only the 5 Bleeding Heart Tetras and the GBR pair are for sure...the others are?
Jayesh - March 23, 2009 07:09 PM (GMT)
Didn't you just say 4 more tiger barbs and 5 guppies? I'm confused...T_T
kENNY - March 23, 2009 08:44 PM (GMT)
Sorry. That tank is a constant work in progress...I've got a general idea of what I want for it...but some plans have to be adjusted for others to work....
My mom wants the new school of blue tetras when I get them...so they might go in the 55gal.
Most likely, Most of my current fish will be dead by the time I get the tank finished as most only live a few years, and I've had most of them since 2006...If they lived...I wouldn't be sad, I'd be happy...I do enjoy watching that tank.
alovefish - April 27, 2009 07:27 PM (GMT)
kENNY and jayesh this topic was about the shubunkins and about having more subunkins in the tank i didnt but any in the tank but recently my sister got another 3 fish so i hav to have her old 1s and my sisi had to quite big tiger barbs and they always bite and bullyed the dinos she had in her tank so i put them in with my shubunkins in for a night and do u no what there as good as gold now haha :lol: they didnt dare bite the shubunkins there to big and now there friends with the dinos and every fish tht comes in the tank.... anytinh u want to no about either the dinos or barbs or shubunkins just ask .... alovefish
Jayesh - May 3, 2009 05:07 PM (GMT)
Once your shubunkins are bigger you may notice danios going missing, I wouldn't consider heavily overcrowded fish as good as gold.
alovefish - May 4, 2009 07:20 PM (GMT)
Jayesh - May 5, 2009 04:55 PM (GMT)
Okay, let's put it short ... your fish will die.
How would you like it if you were stuck in a room the size of around half your bedroom?
kENNY - May 7, 2009 04:55 PM (GMT)
Come on Jayesh -
When I first started fish, I kept 3 Shubunkins, 1 Fantail, and 1 Common Plecostomus in a 10gal in my Living Room. My mom and I later found out we saved those fish from being flushed! :o :o All were small so did fine until we finally upgraded them to a 20gal (to which my mom [and I] added tons more goldies)..we made it heavily planted (they eventually ate all the plants but we didn't care), Heavily Areated and Filtered. All the fish did fine with just a few casuallties but then we upgraded them to my old 29gal then to the 55gal. After that, The remaining ones [we are NOT buying anymore] went out into the 162gal Pond with their non fancy counter parts. Some would say it's a bad idea but the fancies eat before the commons do.
For some reason, some things just "work". No need to fix what aint broke.
Jayesh - May 7, 2009 07:06 PM (GMT)
Kenny, that happens a lot. Note you got casualties; fancy goldfish generally live 10 years and regular types live for longer. However is it worth causing cruelty to fish? They may not die but you must understand they will be stressed in those conditions, and stress leaves fish susceptible to disease.
kENNY - May 8, 2009 01:05 AM (GMT)
Until I got the 55gal, very few died (the 2 Shubunkins and 2 Fancy's) it was after I got my house fumigated [they of course stayed with a now ex-friend] and then upgraded them that they got sick.
Jayesh - May 8, 2009 10:05 PM (GMT)
4 fish is a lot, far more than the expected deaths; it was probably because they were already stressed from the small tank and the amount of movement probably drove them to death.