Question Regarding The Pairings In This Game...

Well, this is a Clerith forum... not a Zerith forum (even if there are Zerith fans here)... it's normal that we have different point of views. About Zack/Cloud, I agree that it was the best friendship in the compilation... IMO they were not really like father and son (such relationship goes better with Auron/Tidus from FF10)... but more like brothers (a big brother can be like a mentor to his little brother... and it actually fits the brothers-in-arms military thing).

I won't say that Zack was more important to Cloud than Aerith because I don't think that... I think a lot of Cloud's guilt comes from Aerith's death... however I think he feels like he had stolen Zack's life and feels guilty for it... and yet, the only person he seeks forgiveness from in the movie is Aerith (but I didn't really watch ACC... so maybe Cloud asks Zack to forgive him too... I just know that Zack helps Cloud during the final fight...).

And the weird thing is... during Case of Tifa... I don't remember Zack's name was ever mentionned by Tifa or Cloud when it comes to Cloud's problems... while Aerith was mentionned a couple of times (of course it doesn't mean Cloud never thought of Zack... but still, he was never mentionned while Aerith was).

And about Cloud and Aerith just being around each other during 1 month... what about Yuna and Tidus then... I believe they didn't spent much time together when Yuna realized that she had romantic feelings for him. Zack and Aerith had 1 year together I believe... but they weren't together all the time because of Zack's job ( and when I watched some Zerith scenes... I noticed how Zack and Aerith were always interrupted by Zack's boss and Zack had to leave... or one scene when Aerith called Zack and he was in a middle of a fight... I got the feeling that Zack was quite busy with his job, so I believe Zerith shared moments were quite short... IMO, that's one reason why Zack always managed to spend his free time with Aerith... because he couldn't see her very often ). But Cloud and Aerith traveled together along with the others... I guess it's different compared to Zerith... Aerith was at home, Zack was away doing his job... and they could only see each other during his free time... while Aerith and Cloud traveled together even for just 1 month, they were comrades... the way they spent time with each other was just different.

We have different point of view. If you like Zerith more than any FF7 pairings, good for you. Same thing for Cloud/Zack (the yaoi thing I mean... I can't understand a lot of yaoi pairings... which are IMO mainly fanon... it's like with Wakka/Tidus from FF10, someone said to me that they were almost gay for each other... while I just see a friendly/brotherly connection because Tidus looks like Wakka deceased brother... and then the same person told me about Auron/Lulu sexual tension and I went WTF... but that's another point ... well I don't like Clack yaoi pairing... but I love their strong brotherly friendship *I guess Zack was the first person that really made Cloud a better person... then Aerith was the second*)... or Cloti... or whatever pairing. But keep in mind that this forum is mainly Clerith... you have to expect people to disagree with you when it comes to Cloud/other or Aerith/other pairings. But it was good to have your point of view.

Ha, ha, yes well my ORIGINAL intent was not to create a stir. My original post was not very controversial. Yes I realize every most every single member on this board disagrees with me, which is why I tried not to get into any debates, and I expected this. However it's hard for me to refrain from doing so once someone says something that I disagree with. I played Final Fantasy X, and I didn't feel anything for Tidus or Yuna. The last romance that I felt a strong connection with before Crisis Core was Final Fantasy IX with Zidane, and Garnet. I tried to look up the timeline for FF X, but I couldn't find one. I'm sure it was longer than a month though. However if the game took place only over the course of a month, and that's as long as Yuna knew Tidus before he disappeared then I would also say it wasn't true love. FF 7 took place over a year, its just that Aerith knew Cloud for only about a month. You can't possibly know a person well enough in a month. You can fall in love, but that's different. I think I mentioned in a previous post that even though Crisis Core took place over many years there were probably many more scenes, and backstories that we didn't see. The DMW hints at the fact that there are other scenes that took place in the game between the characters. There are other DMW memories with Zack, and Aerith, which leads one to the conclusion that he saw her on more occasions then the game allows. This applies to all of the characters. We didn't see much of the Zack/Angeal story, but we know that they're very close. Why? We didn't see much of the Sephiroth/Genesis/Angeal backstory, but its assumed that they're all best friends. How do we know this? Just the fact that Sephiroth refuses to fight them? There must be more to their story than that. Even though the game doesn't provide their backstory, they still have one. The game is really kind of cryptic. It's kind of like connect-the-dots. If you don't want to connect them to get the bigger picture then you don't have to, which is why its open to interpretation.

I don't know that you can negate Zack as being a fatherly influence on Cloud. At times, he's certainly like a father to Cloud. Cloud had no father either. In any case they were much more than best friends to me. A best friend is someone more like a lover. By that I mean that the love of a best friend is conditional. The love of a brother is also much more conditional than that of a parent. A parent never stops loving their child no matter what happens. They'll sacrifice anything including their own life for their child. I saw Zack's love for Cloud as unconditional because he never left him, and was willing to go through hell and back to ensure Cloud's survival, even above his own. Also Cloud's idolization of Zack was much like a child looking up to their father. I'm not saying that Cloud's love for Zack was unconditional. Children don't have unconditional love for their parents. That's just not the way the bond works. Also, the fact that Cloud became Zack's living legacy is also a father/son thing. That's what children are right? Children are a living testament to the existence of their parents. There's also the fact that Cloud was very infantile in his comatose state when Zack took care of him. Interestingly enough when Cloud crawls towards Zack at his death he remembers who Zack is even though he doesn't quite know who he is. That's very reminiscent of an infant reflex to a parent. An infant has no awareness of who they are, but they know who their parents are, and recognize them strongly. Their relationship was certainly more complex than father/son because they were only 2 years apart in age. There were certainly big brother, and best friend elements in there as well, but I think that Zack was a fatherly influence on Cloud.

Without directly asking Cloud it would be hard to ascertain who has a greater influence on him. Situation wise it makes more sense to me that Zack has a greater influence on Cloud. Zack befriended Cloud when he was a nobody, and gave him hope. Zack was Cloud's friend when he didn't have many. He comforted Cloud during their 4 years of captivity/torture in Hojo's lab. He rescued Cloud, and spent a full year dragging him around the world. Then he sacrifices himself for Cloud, which wakes Cloud up out of his comatose state. He then tells Cloud to live, which is quite a powerful line. Cloud repeats it in ACC (not sure about AC) and says, "I said I'd live out both our lives. . . easy to make that promise." It's quite obvious that Cloud is suffering both depression, and post traumatic stress disorder in AC. People that are depressed are prone to suicide. However, Cloud keeps on living because he's a survivor, and he promised Zack he'd live for him. Aerith's influence on him is strong, but different. I don't know, maybe it's just that I felt more for Zack and his life story. The way I look at Case of Tifa is just an official fanfic put out by Square Enix. It doesn't mean that the characters don't have other feelings or emotions just because one story didn't address it. Besides CoT was adressing the whole love triangle thing in a way. Zack wasn't really part of that love triangle because he and Cloud weren't lovers.

chibipinkbunny:

Actually, I do agree with you here. However, that's precisely why I don't see Zack and Aerith's relationship as being the eternal type of love that Zeris fans seem to think it is. If what she and Zack shared was true love and they were "meant to be", as you put it, she would have waited for him no matter what...not write to him saying it was going to be her last letter. Yes, they had genuine feelings for each other while it lasted, but as the creators have said, what the two shared was a "young love", not an eternal one.

So you're not going to accept canon just because you personally feel they didn't know each other long enough? No offense, course. It's just a question.

If you ask me, a lot more goes into knowing someone than just time. People can know people for years and years without really even knowing them at all. I mean, it really depends too on how well two people bond and we can't forget that it's been confirmed Cloud and Aerith share a special bond. Also, Aerith is half-Cetra and can see through to people. Even a month's worth of time(24/7, btw) would be long enough, IMO, if we consider all the facts.

Just curious, but what do you mean by "official fanfic"?
It would be the opposite, IMO. Things adressed by SE would be official/not arguable and anything not addressed would be fanfic.

You don't think people can fall in love or know someone in a month? Well, they can. Besides in the dismantled book Cloud asks Aerith who he is. If Cloud felt Aerith knew him, that says a lot about the time they had with each other.

I agree with this, besides it's not too uncommon in FF for love to develop fast for many of the couples. Squall and Rinoa, Zidane and Garnet, Tidus and Yuna, and others fell in love in a short period of time consisting of only a month or more or less. In many fantasy stories the same thing applies, Cinderella, Snow White, and other stories along those lines have relationships that occur suddenly or quickly. Most game makers or directors don't want to play out years unless their is a time lapse so the love stories develop quickly. It's like the expression "love at first sight."

Exactly. Generally, video games romances are developing in a short period of time and it's sometimes the same thing with some movies (only worst... it can be true love in 1 day or something like that in some movies... only TV shows can really create slow paced romance I guess... or movies/games with many sequels lol).

Now, okay, Zerith had some time (or not, considering Zack was a soldier and so... he had missions getting in the way of his relationship with Aerith)... but they got close pretty quickly, just like Clerith.

Cloti... well, let's say they know each other for a long time... but their "relationship" was pretty much nonexistent, even as friends and we didn't get to live that period of time, it was just told in flashbacks.

So, romance are very often quick because they happen during adventures, and adventures are very often fast paced plot. So, Celes/Locke, Cloud and Aerith, Squall and Rinoa, Garnet and Zidane, Tidus and Yuna are all fast paced romances... and many pairings in other video games are like that.

While it may be nice to settle some sort of relationship between the characters before the start of the game/movie, you have to admit it's often much more epic to see the first meeting of the characters. I guess that's why many people have written that type of romance in many books, movies and video games (I just remembered Romeo and Juliet... most famous romance ever... and yet, they were just 14/15 and got married in 3 or 4 days after their first meeting... talk about the quickest romance ever too... or maybe not, Titanic romance was much more faster than that I guess *except they didn't had time to grab a priest lol*... I remember my french teacher saying that fast paced events and romance in Romeo and Juliet were meant to represent their doomed future and tragic love... in a way, it's the same thing for Cloud/Aerith, Jack/Rose or Tidus/Yuna *just forget FFX-2 illogical ending*... it happens so quickly, all is nice and their little world is shattered when the other dies too quickly... like if meanie fate had decided to make them pay for their short time of pure peace and happiness).