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| Matthew Amt |
Posted: Jul 20 2007, 03:21 AM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Admin Posts: 1,174 Member No.: 11 Joined: 15-December 04 |
Khairete!
As promised, a thread on my own scale armor project. Since it is highly inspired by Todd's, here is the link to his thread: http://z8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_Cent...php?showtopic=8 Decided to put my thread here in the Aegean section, since my scales are based on an example from Troy, but my focus is usually Mycenaean (and they seem to have used scale armor as well). The code name is "Project #5" since this was supposed to be taking a backseat to getting 4 swords finished! Well, you know hobbies and mood swings, eh? The plan so far is to have alternating rows of bronze and red-painted rawhide scales. I have a piece of leather (calf, I believe) for the backing, probably reinforced/lined with linen. It will be hip- to mid-thigh length when done, requiring about 400 bronze and 400 rawhide scales for the body. I like the idea of the laced-on sleeves that Todd is aiming for--Connolly shows them, too. The scale from Troy is about 1" wide by 3" long, with a rounded bottom and a midrib, and 4 holes across the top. Mine will all be cut from my usual 18-gauge bronze scrap. I'm using up all my scraps that are large enough for even one scale, before cutting into my last big piece! Same with the rawhide, I'll first use up the white dog-chew rawhide that didn't get used on a shield, then I'll cut the rest from the big leftover piece from my Warrior Vase shield. Hopefully both big pieces of material will still be large enough for one more substantial project each! Here's about 1-1/2 hours of tracing and cutting scales. You can see the kinds of scraps I'm using--each has to be sanded clean first. ![]() After each bronze scale is cut out, it has to be filed and then stamped to form the midrib. I ground the edge on a large cold chisel to make a midrib tool, using a lead slab for the backing. Since that gives the scale a sort of V-shaped cross-section, I give it a couple hits using the wooden piece with the notched end to flatten it out (the notch fits over the rib to avoid flattening it). ![]() Then punch the holes with my hand-held Whitney punch and give it a final buffing. The other night I made 6 scales from start to finish in less than an hour, so I figure just a week at 10 hours a day should do it, right? ![]() Boy, it's hard to photograph polished bronze! The scale at top right was one of my tests, using a small cross-pein hammer to do the midrib. Good definition, but much too lumpy. The one next to it is another of the first ones--I forgot to check the picture before punching the holes in the wrong configuration! It won't show. The rawhide scales I cut out with scissors or metal snips from dry rawhide, if possible. Some is too thick, and has to be cut after soaking, but I trace out the shapes before soaking so that any expansion and shrinking is accounted for. While still wet, the midrib is stamped. I made a tool for this, a piece of wood with a wire set into the bottom face, but it turns out that the big chisel works even better. I cut two grooves into a piece of oak plywood as the "negative" half of the die, using the wider groove for the thicker rawhide. The good brownish rawhide definitely takes the shaping better than the white stuff. ![]() Then the rawhide has to dry, and it has to be kept flat while doing so! But of course you don't want to flatten out the midrib. I discovered that the rounded edges of 2x4 and 2x3 blocks mean that you can lay them flat together and it leaves a nice space between them for the midrib. So each block is resting along opposing sides of 2 different scales, with the midribs between the blocks. You can see the scale ends peeking out, to the left of center in the photo below. Lead weights on top to give the necessary pressure. At right, I have laid scales face-down, straddling 2 wood strips, with the midribs resting in the gap between the strips. Then weighted blocks on top. I don't dare bring them out until they are all dry! ![]() After they are dry, they'll be painted with red casein paint, and probably coated with safflower oil. I'll coat the bronze scales, too, to cut down on fingerprints. All will most likely be stitched to the backing with heavy linen thread, tying off between scales to cut down on "shedding". This is so cool! Yes, it's going to be a lot of tedious work, and I only have the regular hand tools to do it all, no bench shears or drilling jigs. It's one of those jobs that gets done a lot faster if you GET BUSY ON IT, rather than spending a couple years trying to figure out how to do it more easily! Oh, and all the materials are scraps and stuff left over from other projects, so I *could* say that the total cost so far has been Zero. Gotta sleep! Enjoy, Matthew |
| Todd Feinman |
Posted: Jul 20 2007, 08:49 PM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Members Posts: 1,128 Member No.: 7 Joined: 14-December 04 |
Nice work Matt!! Those look great
I'm looking forward to seeing more! MORE! Todd -------------------- I should be making scales...
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| Sean Manning |
Posted: Jul 21 2007, 02:43 AM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Members Posts: 564 Member No.: 110 Joined: 30-May 06 |
I'm finding it easier to sand my metal before I cut it, personally. But I have long even strips of mild steel 48" by 0.75", and am making smaller scales, so sanding after cutting might work for you. What overlap do you plan to go with?
Thanks for all the documentation of how you are doing things! We're having a rainy spell, which has slowed down my work as I have to work outdoors right now. I ended up going with ungalvanized steel, so I don't want it anywhere near water until I can oil it. |
| Michael Eversberg II |
Posted: Jul 21 2007, 07:24 AM
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![]() In Tyr's Service Group: Members Posts: 438 Member No.: 117 Joined: 5-September 06 |
Wonderful work! Perhaps a mini-guide is in order.
M. -------------------- Hail Tyr, Show thy Might!
Let thunder roar, and lightning strike! Hurl thy spear into the fray, And let my enemies know fear this day! |
| Matthew Amt |
Posted: Jul 21 2007, 06:03 PM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Admin Posts: 1,174 Member No.: 11 Joined: 15-December 04 |
Thanks, Gents. Yeah, I like doing little "how-to" stories for new stuff I make. I do give the metal a good sanding before tracing and cutting out the scales--you can barely see that the shiny weird-shaped piece in the middle of the first photo has scales drawn on it. I cut that one up last night. Some will need a little more sanding or scouring, which helps all the sanding marks run vertically on the scale, too. All of them are buffed after stamping, though I'm thinking to punch the holes last (to avoid little holes full of black buffing compound!).
I'm planning to have a 50 percent overlap, so each row of rawhide scales will cover half of the bronze row below it, and be covered halfway by the bronze row above it. So each bronze row will end exactly where the next bronze row begins, and same for the rawhide. No horizontal overlap at all. Whew, spent the whole day so far getting our new DSL connection and router hooked up, and now have 2 machines here at home with simultaneous Net connections. Hooray! But can't get our old email system to send, nor my wife's business account, hmmm... (My yahoo account is fine.) Don't know if I'll get a chance to make scales today or not! Tomorrow is pretty much shot, visiting family. Must...make...SCALES!!! Matthew |
| Matthew Amt |
Posted: Jul 25 2007, 03:12 AM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Admin Posts: 1,174 Member No.: 11 Joined: 15-December 04 |
Progress as of 10:30 PM, 7/24/07:
![]() Plus a pile of unfinished scales: ![]() Not a bad week's work, eh? That's actually a measurable fraction of the shirt done! It helps that I can do a lot of tracing, cutting, and punching in front of the TV, though not the sanding, stamping, or buffing. Still have to put this all on my website. Had quite a bit of trouble getting that last batch of white rawhide to take the midrib! So I won't try any more for a while, I'll just stick to the good stuff. Khairete! Matthew |
| Dan Z |
Posted: Jul 25 2007, 05:31 AM
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![]() Oooo - shiny! Group: Members Posts: 58 Member No.: 70 Joined: 7-November 05 |
Holy smokes!
I really need to get to work on quilting my armor, not that I have been slacking off mind you just been spending my free time writing rather that quilting. |
| Todd Feinman |
Posted: Jul 25 2007, 05:05 PM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Members Posts: 1,128 Member No.: 7 Joined: 14-December 04 |
Yep, AWESOME!! Very nice work Matt!
Todd -------------------- I should be making scales...
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| Sean Manning |
Posted: Jul 26 2007, 01:09 AM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Members Posts: 564 Member No.: 110 Joined: 30-May 06 |
Very nice! The dull red rawhide and gleaming orange-brown copper give an interesting effect. You're lucky to have a convenient indoor workspace (with television, no less).
Matthew, how have you been positioning the scales in the punch? I notice you are managing an even line of holes quite close to the edge. I've found aiming the punch to be one of the trickier bits of making scales, since the Whitney punch only comes with a back guide and it is hard to see the scales from the handle-side of the punch. |
| Matthew Amt |
Posted: Jul 26 2007, 02:38 PM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Admin Posts: 1,174 Member No.: 11 Joined: 15-December 04 |
Dan, I'll have a lot more by next workshop, and I'll bring them all along.
Sean, this stuff just doesn't photograph well indoors! The colors are brighter in natural light, though the red will darken a little after I oil it. Gosh, I guess the holes DO seem pretty nicely lined up in the picture! Doesn't seem so neat up close! I don't measure at all, I just use a steel punch to mark each hole, eyeballing it and working pretty quickly. There's not a lot of space, so the holes really can't end up too far off. Never used the guide on my Whitney punch, either--took it off as soon as I opened the case and tossed it somewhere. Traced out another batch of bronze scales last night, and buffed a few more. Tonight I really need to soak and stamp a bunch of rawhide ones. Hmm, I suppose I could slide the anvil over in front of the TV--we have an old couch and an old TV in one corner of the basement. I call it the Bat Cave, and I can do at least semi-messy projects there that can NOT be done up in the living room. With so many different steps in the process, it's pretty easy to spend any few minutes productively. Don't know how long this pace will keep up, though! Khairete, Matthew |
| Mark Anders |
Posted: Jul 27 2007, 02:33 PM
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Outta' the fryin' pan... Group: Members Posts: 15 Member No.: 94 Joined: 1-March 06 |
Wow Matt, that looks very smooth!
You make it look so easy to make.. Can't wait to see the endresult! <Mark> |
| Matthew Amt |
Posted: Jul 27 2007, 04:25 PM
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Ready, served hot..! Group: Admin Posts: 1,174 Member No.: 11 Joined: 15-December 04 |
Well, that's the big advantage of scale armor--it really isn't hard to make a scale! There are lots of styles and sizes to choose from, and you can use just rawhide if you don't have metal. A little cutting, a few holes. Embossing a raised dot like on Todd's is even easier than my midribs. The big DISadvantage is that you need hundreds or thousands of scales! So it's mostly a matter of time and determination.
Oh, me too!! Matthew |
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| Luciën Olinga |
Posted: Jul 27 2007, 08:48 PM
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1/12 scale statue man Group: Members Posts: 917 Member No.: 43 Joined: 25-April 05 |
Looks great Matt!
I once did some scales making too.. only very small.. Maybe you recognize the statue of an Assyrian warrior. My lacing however is rather different from yours.. I did it back than by the example of something I found on the internet about it.. I'm sure there are more than just one manner to lace the scales together.. Greetings Luciën.. Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand) ![]() -------------------- Previously known as: Larzuk
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| Dan Z |
Posted: Jul 27 2007, 09:26 PM
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![]() Oooo - shiny! Group: Members Posts: 58 Member No.: 70 Joined: 7-November 05 |
I am always amazed by your work as well Luciën. Most impressive!
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| Luciën Olinga |
Posted: Jul 28 2007, 12:45 AM
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1/12 scale statue man Group: Members Posts: 917 Member No.: 43 Joined: 25-April 05 |
Thanks Dan, I appreciate it!
Greetings Luciën.. -------------------- Previously known as: Larzuk
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