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 Americans Elect will NOT name a candidate, common sense prevails!
ReElectAlGore2016
Posted: May 20 2012, 01:09 PM
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Two Daily Kos/SEIU polls show why Americans Elect failed
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/20/1...failed#comments

Americans Elect announced this week that it will not field a candidate in the 2012 presidential election because no potential nominee received sufficient popular support. This is an ignominious end to an effort backed by $35 million and many high-profile political figures who sought, according to New York Times columnist Thomas Freidman, to create a viable, centrist, third-party force in American presidential politics.
The reason Americans Elect was unable to generate much popular support is simple: Not many moderates believe both that President Obama is too liberal and Mitt Romney is too conservative. Further, not many moderates feel there is no place for moderates in either the Republican or Democratic parties.

Given the narrative weight behind the idea that polarization in American politics is alienating a vast swath of the center, these claims may seem counterintuitive. However, a look at the raw data from two recent Daily Kos/SEIU State of the Nation polls provides strong supporting evidence.

First, in the Daily Kos/SEIU poll conducted from April 26-29, only 35 out of the 1,000 registered voters surveyed indicated both that President Obama is too liberal and Mitt Romney is too conservative (see questions 5 and 6, a .zip file with the raw data can be found at the bottom of the page linked). Only 18 of those 35 respondents self-identified as moderate, or about two percent of all registered voters surveyed.

Second, in the Daily Kos/SEIU poll conducted from May 10-13, only 92 of the 1,000 registered voters surveyed thought there is no place for moderates in either the Democratic or Republican parties these days (see questions 12 and 13, a .zip file with the raw data can be found at the bottom of the page linked). What's more, only 14 of those 92 self-identified as moderates.

In looking to find a viable, centrist, third-party presidential candidate for moderates who feel left out by both the Democratic and Republican parties, Americans Elect was drawing on roughly two percent of all registered voters for its base of support. As such, it is unsurprising Americans Elect was unable to generate sufficient participation to produce a nominee. While the idea that the two major parties have both abandoned the center may be popular in the opinion sections of several prominent news organizations, that idea does not have much traction with the American people.

.
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ReElectAlGore2016
Posted: May 20 2012, 01:16 PM
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http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/05/frank...e-gay-vote.html (following part of a multi-thought article in New York magazine

FRANK RICH- (as always, 100% correct, but sadly not writing enough these days)

This is a fascinating episode that deserves far more scrutiny.
In a very short time this “centrist” group spent $35 million on its effort to harm Obama’s reelection campaign by plotting to place a moderate candidate on the ballot as a spoiler in all 50 states.
Americans Elect’s most prominent and vocal supporters were Thomas L. Friedman of the Times, the Obama–loathing pollster Douglas Schoen (a nominal Democrat), and Mark McKinnon, the former George W. Bush ad guy who plays a congenial centrist on MSNBC’s Morning Joe.
The hope was to get a Michael Bloomberg, Jon Huntsman, or David Petraeus to run; in the end, the leading Americans Elect candidate was the former Louisiana Governor Buddy Roemer, best known for being too inept to rise to the low single-digits polling level of even Huntsman during the GOP presidential primary contest last fall.
My question: Who gave that $35 million and where did it all vanish in a matter of months? Paul Krugman, who has been relishing the demise of Americans Elect and slyly mocking his colleague Friedman for his support of it, should stay on the case.
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JamesAquila
Posted: May 21 2012, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (ReElectAlGore2016 @ May 20 2012, 01:16 PM)
FRANK RICH- (as always, 100% correct, but sadly not writing enough these days)


Was Rich 100% correct when he repeatedly lied about Gore in 2000?
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ReElectAlGore2016
Posted: May 21 2012, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE (JamesAquila @ May 21 2012, 10:04 AM)
QUOTE (ReElectAlGore2016 @ May 20 2012, 01:16 PM)
FRANK RICH- (as always, 100% correct, but sadly not writing enough these days)


Was Rich 100% correct when he repeatedly lied about Gore in 2000?

I didn't read him much back then.Back then Dan Rather was still on the air. Those were his early political days and he evolved on the job.
(remember Al himself evolved on many issues too from the 1980s to the aftermath of the 2000 theft).

But in the last 5 years, can't recall Rich being wrong once.
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JamesAquila
Posted: May 21 2012, 11:03 AM
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Texan for Gore
Posted: May 21 2012, 12:29 PM
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Wow. I didn't realize that Frank Rich had such a habit of trashing Gore. Clay, this is the same Frank Rich you are alway praising as being 10000% correct??? Boy, you missed the boat on this one. :rolleyes:
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Wayne in WA State
Posted: May 21 2012, 01:40 PM
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I read an article on Slate about this fiasco.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_pol...n_failure_.html

I'm glad to see it crash and burn, a highly suspicious idea from the start.
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Patsy
Posted: May 21 2012, 08:22 PM
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I still do not care for Chris Matthews because he trashed Gore something awful when he was running for president. He still does when something arises and he thinks that he can trash him. But, I have always known that Rich hated Gore.

This post has been edited by Patsy on May 21 2012, 08:23 PM
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Texan for Gore
Posted: May 21 2012, 10:35 PM
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Well, it's unfortunate that our news media sees fit to trash the good guys such as Gore. Every time I read an article about Gore, I'm always incredulous at how many negative postings there are in the comment section. I figure it's the paid for climate deniers out in full force to try to discredit Gore. Is there even such a thing as integrity in reporting anymore? :?:
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ReElectAlGore2016
Posted: May 22 2012, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (Texan for Gore @ May 21 2012, 12:29 PM)
Wow.  I didn't realize that Frank Rich had such a habit of trashing Gore.  Clay, this is the same Frank Rich you are alway praising as being 10000% correct???  Boy, you missed the boat on this one.  :rolleyes:

you never even heard of him, yet you ad hominem me here.
Rich has evolved.
I know you never will.

Going back, Al Gore was the one that introduced Willie Horton (not by name) that destroyed Dukakis later on.
Al evolved too (if one is honest and recalls, Al used to be one of those that was more conservative than most democrats.

The point is not going backward dear Texan for Gore, as your Ron Paul and Ross perot and Nader wanted to all go back, it is going forward.

Al Gore evolved to be the person that first backed Obama, knowing Obama can win and was on all the correct side of the issues and still is.

(as the joke goes, Real Democrats believe in going forward and evolving.
the other side of course doesn't even believe in evolution to begin with.



This post has been edited by ReElectAlGore2016 on May 22 2012, 01:44 PM
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Texan for Gore
Posted: May 22 2012, 02:51 PM
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When did I say I never heard of him? I just simply stated I didn't realize he had a habit of trashing Gore. That in itself makes him lose credibility for me, though you always claim he is 100% correct on everything. And I wasn't ad homineming you, unless you consider telling you you're wrong in this instance as ad hominem. :P You certainly don't have a problem reciprocating, I see. :rolleyes: I guess evolving it in the eye of the beholder. I've evolved, just not necessarily to your liking, and not going backwards either. I'm just not happy with the state of our politics all the way around.


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ReElectAlGore2016
Posted: May 22 2012, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (Texan for Gore @ May 22 2012, 02:51 PM)
When did I say I never heard of him? I just simply stated I didn't realize he had a habit of trashing Gore. That in itself makes him lose credibility for me, though you always claim he is 100% correct on everything. And I wasn't ad homineming you, unless you consider telling you you're wrong in this instance as ad hominem. :P You certainly don't have a problem reciprocating, I see. :rolleyes: I guess evolving it in the eye of the beholder. I've evolved, just not necessarily to your liking, and not going backwards either. I'm just not happy with the state of our politics all the way around.

I am surprised at some of those links as they are from rightwing sites.
Very unlike James

Seems like that is doing to Frank Rich what you and James are complaining about Rich may or may not have done to Gore. (and yes, Gore was to the right of the middle line back before 2000s theft.

Most NY Liberals voted for Jesse Jackson and later did not appreciate the way Willie HOrton was used against Dukakis to swift boat him.

I will take Frank Rich over any other write during the Bush administration, and Frank Rich was the first and the most important who solidly said the truth that the hatred of Obama was race based (and anyone now knows it.)

instead of rehashing bull issues like Love Story (where Erich Segal the writer of love story indeed said Al and his room mate (the later famous Tommy Lee Jones)
were the basis for the Ryan O'Neal character, one should again read the Frank Rich article

Also, it seems that attempting to trash me, because one is disappointed learning what this thread is about (the complete America repudiation of the 3rd party
and American Elect says something in itself.
I know Texan 4 Gore, you were hoping AElect would pick someone so you would not have to vote for Obama.
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Texan for Gore
Posted: May 22 2012, 11:33 PM
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Which are right-wing links? The Daily Howler? I'm not familiar enough with that site to know, but if James posted it, it can't be right-wing. :rolleyes:

You know about the golden rule, right? Well, I think Frank Rich did unto Gore before anybody ever did unto Frank Rich. I don't appreciate him telling lies about Gore. I'm sure it didn't help Gore in 2000.

And if Frank Rich will lie about Gore, it doesn't sound like he can necessarily be objective.

And I am not attempting to trash you, Clay. If that's the way it sounds, I apologize. I was just giving you a hard time.

As far as being disappointed with that Americans Elect deal, nah, I'm not disappointed. Sure, I checked it out early on but the fact that they were so secretive about the funding sounded fishy to me. And when Rocky Anderson decided to become an AE candidate, I was disappointed about that. But I don't think that means there's no interest in a 3rd party candidate. The problem is just having a viable candidate and that people would be willing to vote for. That Jill Stein sounds like she would be good.

But it's not the idea of not wanting to vote for Obama. It's the things he'd done in office that I have problems with. But I've gone over all those things time and time again. There's no need to rehash it.
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ReElectAlGore2016
Posted: May 25 2012, 04:55 AM
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QUOTE (Texan for Gore @ May 22 2012, 11:33 PM)
Which are right-wing links? The Daily Howler? I'm not familiar enough with that site to know, but if James posted it, it can't be right-wing. :rolleyes:

You know about the golden rule, right? Well, I think Frank Rich did unto Gore before anybody ever did unto Frank Rich. I don't appreciate him telling lies about Gore. I'm sure it didn't help Gore in 2000.

And if Frank Rich will lie about Gore, it doesn't sound like he can necessarily be objective.

And I am not attempting to trash you, Clay. If that's the way it sounds, I apologize. I was just giving you a hard time.

As far as being disappointed with that Americans Elect deal, nah, I'm not disappointed. Sure, I checked it out early on but the fact that they were so secretive about the funding sounded fishy to me. And when Rocky Anderson decided to become an AE candidate, I was disappointed about that. But I don't think that means there's no interest in a 3rd party candidate. The problem is just having a viable candidate and that people would be willing to vote for. That Jill Stein sounds like she would be good.

But it's not the idea of not wanting to vote for Obama. It's the things he'd done in office that I have problems with. But I've gone over all those things time and time again. There's no need to rehash it.

you are full of it

Golden Rule???

Before 2000, there was the 1988 race for president, of which Al Gore, then straddling almost some major rightwing views, gave the world the Willie Horton episode directly in a debate with the other candidates and that alone helped bring Bush41 into office and help defeat the liberal candidate Mike Dukakis.

Golden Rule? Well if you are going back to ancient history, I am sure Al Gore would have done that one over. (Note, I was not an Al Gore fan in 1988, having voted for and I would do it again in a minute, Jesse Jackson who got royally screwed by whisper campaigns himself.
Without the bigoted Willie Horton thingy, Mike Dukakis would most likely be president today (IMHO).
Without Willie Horton, 41 never would have become President, and neither would
have W43. So the "Golden Rule" sure had ripple effects, didn't it?
There would have been no theft in 2000 either. And 9/11 would just not have happened.

again, Al Gore evolved into the left wing activist he is today, and in the scheme of things, there are a zillion things more important in the Obama era than the movie Love Story.(again, something Love Story's own author E.Segal said Al indeed was part of the composite character of Oliver).Can anyone say Tommy Lee Jones is goodlooking as Ryan Oneal made Oliver look like in the movie? Looks must have come from Al not the craggy Jones.

More important is Al Gore was the first major politician to go for Obama. Ted Kennedy and others shortly followed Al.(and a look in 2012 Nov. in the ballot I bet will show Gore voting for Obama again).

Frank Rich evolved from being the most feared theatre critic on the NY Times
to being the #1 op-ed writer in America in Newspapers during the Bush age,
and calling the racist anti-Obamaists tea partyfor what they were- racists, bigots, haters and anti-constitutionalists (while the tea party lied and said they were for America's basic rights. (what a joke to think those racists were(let alone the Paul brigade and his anti-America son Rand.)

so if the choice is Frank Rich vs. Rand Paul, well, Frank Rich got my vote 100% of the time.

a little history from wiki on the Willie Horton episode which changed America

Horton in the 1988 presidential campaignThe first person to mention the Massachusetts furlough program in the 1988 presidential campaign was Al Gore. During a debate at the Felt Forum sponsored by the New York Daily News, Gore took issue with the furlough program. However, he did not specifically mention the Horton incident or even his name, instead asking a general question about the Massachusetts furlough program.[7]

Republicans picked up the Horton issue after Dukakis clinched the nomination. In June 1988, Republican candidate George H.W. Bush seized on the Horton case, bringing it up repeatedly in campaign speeches.[7] Bush's campaign manager, Lee Atwater, predicted that "by the time this election is over, Willie Horton will be a household name."[7][8] In April 1988, Lee Atwater asked aide Jim Pinkerton for negative research to defeat Dukakis.[citation needed] Pinkerton returned with reams of material that Atwater told him to reduce to a 3×5 index card, telling him, "I'm giving you one thing. You can use both sides of the 3×5 card." Pinkerton discovered the furlough issue by watching the Felt Forum debate. On May 25, 1988, Republican consultants met in Paramus, New Jersey, holding a focus group of Democrats who had voted for Ronald Reagan in 1984. After giving the focus group the material Pinkerton provided on the index card, most of the voters switched from favoring Dukakis to favoring Bush.[citation needed] These focus groups convinced Atwater and the other Republican consultants that they should 'go negative' against Dukakis. Further information regarding the furlough came from aide Andrew Card, a Massachusetts native whom President George W. Bush later named as his Chief of Staff.[9]
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Texan for Gore
Posted: May 25 2012, 12:46 PM
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You are a member of the Gore board, yet you are trashing Gore??? Nice. <_<

You have failed to show how Gore has ever done to Frank Rich what he did to Gore, but the answer is he did nothing to Frank Rich. The Willie Horton incident is irrelevant. And Gore had a right to express his opinion over a furlough program that was allowing violent offenders (those sentenced to life without parole) time out prison to go out and kill or harm someone else.

It doesn't mean he cost Dukakis the election. It should be noted from wiki also that the Lawrence Eagle Tribune ran the story 175 times - the media was more responsible than any one person.

But against, the Horton incident is irrelevant to the Gore/Rich issue.

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