Bush vs. Gore has lessons for us

[ReElectAlGore2016]

who gives a spit about whatever the ndaa is
(is that a new football league?)

congress authorized the president to do whatever it takes to win the war on terror.
If you don't like it, blame congress.
the president is upholding the rights.

I recall the traitor Harry S. Truman assasssinated millions of Japanese illegally
(and arrested millions more).
and I recall the traitors in the south killing tens of thousands of northerners in their illegal war(yet the charitable north allowed them to go back home after they kicked the south's ass.)

the US has never been the fabled leader to start off with. I think France is though. :clap:

I also recall posterboy Eisenhower (according to wiki), killed countless german's at the end of WW2 just to not have to worry what to do with the prisoners.Yet the rightwing seems to love him

[Texan for Gore]

Obviously you don't. Basically, war and violence only begets more war and violence. How many of our politicians are willing to send their children off to war? Instead, they send recruiters to our schools to sell a career in the armed forces to our children. And I don't advocate drinking, but isn't it something that children are old enough to die for their country at 18 but not old enough to drink. They should raise the age to serve to at least 21. Maybe kids will have matured enough to really think about what they are signing up for. Here's a little food for thought from Jimmy Carter - one of the best Presidents we've ever had.

"I think what's going on in Guantanamo Bay and other places is a disgrace to the U.S.A. I wouldn't say it's the cause of terrorism, but it has given impetus and excuses to potential terrorists to lash out at our country and justify their despicable acts."

"I thought then, and I think now, that the invasion of Iraq was unnecessary and unjust. And I think the premises on which it was launched were false."

"It is difficult for the common good to prevail against the intense concentration of those who have a special interest, especially if the decisions are made behind locked doors."

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always an evil, never a good. We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other's children."

[ReElectAlGore2016]

I love Jimmy Carter

he lost and only served one term

Obama won 2 terms.

case closed. NOTHING else matters. NOTHING.

you are INSANE NUTS if you think Mitt Romney will get you better and SCOTUS alone is reason enough.

[Texan for Gore]

You could have fooled me. :rolleyes: Jimmy Carter was probably too honest for his own good. Honest politicians don't seem to last long. They get "Carterized" as you like to say. Ask Kucinich or Feingold. You have to know how to play the game to stay in.

You can rule out INSANE NUTS as no, I don't think Mitt Romney will get us any better. But as Obama said himself, all he has to do is be better than the alternative to win. :unsure:

[ReElectAlGore2016]

although I know you hate Obama and his health care bill (and the millions of poor people who will lose what they thought they gained) it is directly because of the Bush family and Ronald Reagan that this is possible.

and here you berate Obama for things not his fault, or things politically that need to be done, and run ramrod over him yet, the one trueism is-

without the rightwing court, there would be none of these worries

without Ralph Nader, Bush43 would not have been seated, and there would have been no Iran war at all.(Which Obama is ending like Afghanastan.)

But keep making up kookie conspiracy theories. You and Sheriff Joe and Joe the Plumber who really is not named Joe nor a plumber, and all the birthers can attempt to pulverize Obama the next five years that remain in his terms.

Jeb couldn't have it easier without people doing that.

[Texan for Gore]

I guess it is easier to put words in my mouth and say I hate Obama and democrats rather than hold Obama accountable for ANY of his actions. Or how about holding our corrupt system accountable. No, I guess that thought is too much for you to handle. So be it. I have accepted that one of the things I can't change is your attitude.

[ReElectAlGore2016]

I haven't seen you accept that nothing Obama has done has been against the constitution
only rightwing extremists lies about it and kookie konspiracy theories

as Congress authorized all, that means there is nothing against the constitution(no matter what the rightwing extremists say as they never tell the truth

so what don't you see?

Yet you blame Al Gore for not going on when you totally misunderstood what the supreme court ruled 12/12/2000 by just basing what an anonymous article opinion piece said. A simple google would have told you the article erin posted for discussion was not completely accurate by the anonymous blogger who wrote it(only part)

(one trouble with putting articles and posting them is whereever they come from might not have gotten it correct, or might be slanted (and I know texan4gore you will find the most slanted against Obama to post 100 out of 100 times.)

[Texan for Gore]

That's because he has done many things AGAINST the Constitution. Go back and read the thread I posted last year.

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Al_Gore_Support...showtopic=11986

If you think I'm always posting articles that are 100 out of 100 times slanted against Obama, then dispute them. Show me how indefinite detentions without habeas corpus or due process is NOT against the Constitution. Dispute what Jimmy Carter says as well.

I'm waiting for something concrete and solid from you rather than your continual putting words in my mouth or claiming I hate Obama as proof that he hasn't violated the Constitution. And just so you know, I acknowledge that he's not the first president to do so. But it needs to stop. And neither of the two major parties seems very motivated to do anything about it.

[ReElectAlGore2016]

the constitution is where the powers of each office are given

congress authorizes and can take away the authorization from a president

if they did not want the president to do it, they would de-fund the program they gave the president permission (I for one don't want to end the programs as it keeps us safe. Why you are scared of them only leads one to believe you are hiding something as there is no other reason for your irrational fear.)

please show me where congress has defunded any part of the war on terror

Just because a few peace niks have called for it, well, Charlie Rangel has called for the reinstatement of the draft, but no one else has gone along with him

so please show me where it says that in THE CONSTUTTION

Jimmy Carter is a private citizen who voted in 2008 and 2012 for Obama.
(So did Kucinich). Personally I am not a fan of Feingold, he is a loser with a capital L and never did anything worthy of Paul Wellstone whom he tried to copy.
(BTW Wellstone was heavily pro-Israel and for the protection of Israel in case you did not know that....(Wellstone was also the basis of the character of President Bartlett in West Wing including the MS part)

And any minority any day of the year has less rights than a white person in America. Seems I would rather see something done for those people than the stupid border patrol vigillantes and wild west sheriffs out there.

This post has been edited by ReElectAlGore2016 on Jun 26 2012, 02:40 PM

[Texan for Gore]

Even if a Congress authorizes something, doesn't mean it is constitutional.

There was difficulty getting support for the Constitution with a Bill of Rights, hence the Bill of Rights were added, which refer to people's rights.

The thread I pasted lists numerous violations by this administration. Again, he's not the first one to violate the Constitution. Bush started it with the Patriot Act, but I certainly expected different from Obama.

And given that Judge Forrester ruled that part of the NDAA unconstitutional, I'm not the only one who thinks so.

And I'm not saying I support what border patrols do - I was just making the same argument that you've made about TSA employees. But I also certainly don't agree with fast and furious. Just goes to show how we are manipulated in to believing things just so they can take away more of our rights.

[ReElectAlGore2016]

bullsheet

if congress passes it, it is constitutional and they and only they have the power to fund/defund.
without money of course, they could not make drones, could they?

btw, I think personally a president should be the top one on the power scale.
He is one of one
the court is one of nine, five being idiots
the senate one of hundred idiots
the congress one of too many idiots

as Nixon said, whatever a President does is legal, and as Nixon never went to jail, it must be true.

war is war. war is ugly, but all those religious nutjobs believe in war, and war was in the bible wasn't?

(Hey, every year at Passover, myself and other Jewish people read the Seder, which said that every Jewish person should place a marking (goat's blood?) on the door as a symbol that God should pass that house. And in any house that does not have that symbol, God shall kill the first born (male) child of all others.

I would suggest a drone killing the new leaders of AlQueda is alot more humane than God was back then when Jews were considered slaves.

just saying, you know? Life did not start with the patriot act or George Bush.

You really need to go back further, especially if spewing about the constitution like the teaparty spewers spout.

(btw, this is also why I don't even consider nor care about anything that happened in Vietnam during the war, and care about all the good things LBJ did, as opposed to Robert MacNamara lying to him and all the others about Vietnam. So I am indeed consistent in my thoughts about this and have been.

I am sure, dear texan4gore, you would on Sept.12, 2000 have been happy if a drone got OBL right then, or a bunker buster got him in Tora Bora in the mountains. One drone means LESS deaths than any other means of wartime.
Look for the glass half filled, not half empty.

and yes, the US sucks at human rights, no nation that wants to evict all Mexicans
and purge all minority voters as THE REPUBLICANS AND TEA PARTY do, is humane.
So take your anger out on THEM.

(note to texan4gore-Jimmy Carter is big on honest elections. There are banana republicans that have more honest elections than we have, and he and I know it.)
Your time would be better spent canvassing your state/area and signing up to vote every single miniority you can find to overcome anyone purged.
2 new voters for each one not is a good trade.

Or, go to Florida, (or call Chad), and tell her to do the same in her state.
Don't let Scott purge 180,000 LEGAL citizens and voters(all black/minorities) from the voting roles.

and then make sure those voters vote without restriction (as the constitution says).

[Texan for Gore]

I have to say, this is one of the best arguments you've ever made, about war always being around, that is. True, it has, even as far back as biblical times - and I remember the Passover story.

And yes, war is ugly. How often has it solved anything? Well, maybe when things come to a head and there seems to be no resolution in sight, war may make resolutions possible when people get tired of fighting and killing.

At the same time, we've had periods of relative peace, haven't we? What makes those times different than times of war? Probably depends on the kind of leader is in charge, how much they and the other side are willing to talk things out. Power can go to people's heads. Most wars seem to be about economics or resources, gaining control, greed, etc. And are we not on the fast track to becoming globalized? Who does that benefit? The rich and powerful, of course.

You said you thought that the President should be at the top of the power scale. Well, I disagree with that. No one group of people, whether it be Congress or the President should have too much sole power. That's why we are supposed to have checks and balances. And it seems like the more power people have, the more they abuse it, such as our law enforcement, especially when it goes unchecked.

You may think I'm being too hard on Obama and maybe this won't make any sense, but when a person votes for so long, and the candidate of their choice never wins, then when their candidate does win, they tend to have high expectations of that person. When that person doesn't meet those expectations or seems to go against what he campaigned on, it is a huge disappointment. It's really been a disillusionment - and not just in him - but the political process itself. The older one gets, the more they learn about politics, and you may not see wrongs under just one given administration, but rather it is a gradual trend of how government more and more serves the elite and corporations. Our corporations have really gotten more powerful in the last 30 years - whereas the rest of us are regulated to death.

And yes, I would have been happy if OBL had been caught early on, yet we were led into a false war with Iraq and Saddam Hussein. Is it any wonder that people question what we're told?

And no, I don't like the use of drones one bit, other than they do keep our troops safer, but this talk of 30,000 drones flying in our airspace in a few years. That is ludicrous and not the kind of world I want to live in. You already see how power can be abused. You don't think those things will be abused? Little by little, our rights are being chipped away at, and as much as I hate to say it, we are heading toward a police state. Look at Wall Street protesters are treated compared to Trayvon's killer? And why? All the protect the elite - and in Trayvon's case, his white killer.

But people will rail that I'm am making the perfect the enemy of good or being too pure, high-minded, etc. Well, what is it they say about, if you don't stand for anything, you will fall for everything. There's a time to stand for something and a time to give in. I wish democrats would fight more instead of seeming to cave to often. But I digress.

Anyway, despite my griping about Obama, it's not my goal to keep anybody else from voting for him. That's there right. Maybe I am just trying to work through my own disappointment - seeing if I can come to terms with voting for him again. And I know the alternatives are worse but it's just a reminder that the current system is broken.

Btw, I spoke to Chad for the first time a few weeks ago. I don't think you have to worry about her. She's voting for Obama. ;)