Dog Fighting Strategy Help

Hello! First post... Weee =)

I've been digging around on the internet for the past week trying to find more information on this game. I've bought into Eldar, and with just a few Hex Bases, my friend and I have been playing and I can't quite get a good hold on the dog fighting. So I was wondering if you guys had some tips! Here's what I run into.

My current combat philosophy
I always try to hit my targets from the sides. My friend is currently playing Tau, so I try desperately to zoom in from the sides and one altitude higher so he can't use his blasters. Blasters are fairly weak, so I suppose flying at the same altitude to take my shots from the side is fine, but in general, I try to hit them from the sides.

I'm always out numbered.
I didn't think this would be that big of a deal, except that usually the target I'm chasing will be the last one my opponent decides to move. This makes it entirely hard to hit them, and I often have to just change targets if I can based on maneuvers I've picked. Again, this is hard, as I must choose maneuvers before the moving begins. So I've had an exceptionally hard time getting into a good striking zone and not getting shot at in return D=

Thoughts after the last two games.
I've been doing a lot of strikes where I zip in, and then just hang out in the cluster of enemies trying to line them up. I'm having thoughts now though, where I should probably try and zip in, try to get a target or two, and then burn out of range and try again. Is this reasonable? It seems risky, sort of.

So ya, I'd love thoughts. I'd love to have some details on the maneuver cards and how people make use of a combination of them to get in the right position. Are there any web pages out there with tactics written down or in pictures that can be looked over with common maneuver set ups?

Hey Chioxin, welcome to the boards

The best way I have found to line up shots on enemy planes is to go after the ones that have already moved, if you can. Bear in mind that as a fellow Eldar player, you have some of the most manoeuvrable aircraft in the game (our bombers are high-manoeuvre aircraft!) and we should be taking advantage of that. In general, I have found that as in real life, you want to keep your speed nice and high, and take opportunistic shots at targets that you can reach. Eldar suffer from two numerical problems - fewer enemies than our opponents, and not so many shots per turn as some (eg Orks). This means we need to make the most of our shooting, and try not to get shot at in return. Coming in from the side is a good tactic, although beware the Ork Bommer with ridiculous numbers of side turrets - I have used them offensively and shot down a good number of aircraft with them.

General tips, then:

Keep your speed up and know your manoeuvre cards. For example, card number 1 may only be a straight line, but it allows you to climb/descend 2 levels in one go, which can be enough to get you out of danger, and also works wonders for combination strafing/bombing runs. Powerdiving is fun, especially with bombers, but never do it at altitude 4 or below unless you're feeling very lucky!

If you're not familiar with the enemy aircraft, check their stats in the books. For example the Chaos Harbinger bomber is big and scary, but has no guns whatsoever in its rear arc, so if you can get in behind it, it can't hurt you. Ork Fightas, with certain upgrades, can throw out 16 shots at close range! Eldar aircraft can suddenly disappear through webway portals, and have holofields which effectively gives them a save against any damage they take. Knowing things like this will stand you in good stead for your games.

Hitting anything at all in AI isn't that easy, so when you get a good firing opportunity, don't be afraid to try a sustained burst to maximise your damage potential. Bear in mind, though, that the sustained burst can only come from a single weapon on any given aircraft.

If your enemy knows where you're going to be, don't be there! Flying predictably is a great way to get shot down. If you're attacking a ground target, don't just make straight for it - make your opponent guess where you could be. He'll either concentrate on one area gambling that you're going there (and you won't be), or spread himself out to cover more space in which case you're evening up the odds.

Hope some of this helps, have fun learning about the game

Alright, cool. Interesting bit about the orks. This is a tad worrisome then. Is it possible for a plane like theirs to fire both its front arc and its side arc if a plane is resting on that line? Or is the rule something else, where perhaps the plane must be 50% inside an arc to be fired at. Heh, I imagine Orks are hell to shoot at!

Is sustained fire in the advance rules? We have both books, but we're sticking to the original and simple rules for now. We figured once we had a handle on the basics, we'd upgrade to try out some of the other rules.

But ya, thanks for this =) Just sounds like I might need to get better at picking targets and planning, but I have the style down. The second game for me went much better and I survived longer. I even managed to take down one Barracuda. AI so far is a great air combat game =)

You can only fire at one aircraft per arc. So if a Marauder bomber with forward, rear and all-round arcs had an enemy plane on its tail, it could fire with the rear and turret guns but not the front ones. If it had two enemy planes in its rear arc, it would have to pick one to fire at with the rear guns, although since "all round" is a different arc to "rear", the turret could pick a different target. You cannot split your fire with a single weapon, but you can fire separate weapons at different targets if they are in different fire arcs.

Sustained bursts are one of the things you have to make a pilot skill check for. If you're just getting to grips with the basics then you can save it for when you're more confident with the rules. And I hope the aircraft in question got a killmark for that Barracuda...!

Here are soem quotes from fighter aces that may help...

It's just like being in a knife fight in a dirt-floor bar. If you want to fix a fella, the best way to do it is to get behind him and stick him in the back. It's the same in an air fight. If you want to kill that guy, the best thing to do is get around behind him where he can't see you . . . . and shoot him.

— Captain William O'Brian, 357th Fighter Group, USAAF.

Once committed to an attack, fly in at full speed. After scoring crippling or disabling hits, I would clear myself and then repeat the process. I never pursued the enemy once they had eluded me. Better to break off and set up again for a new assault. I always began my attacks from full strength, if possible, my ideal flying height being 22,000 ft because at that altitude I could best utilize the performance of my aircraft. Combat flying is based on the slashing attack and rough maneuvering. In combat flying, fancy precision aerobatic work is really not of much use. Instead, it is the rough maneuver which succeeds.

— Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF, aka Karaya One, worlds leading ace, with 352 victories in W.W.II.Jagdgeschwader 52.

Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.

— Major Thomas B. 'Tommy' McGuire, USAAF.

I opened fire when the whole windshield was black with the enemy . . . at minimum range . . . it doesn't matter what your angle is to him or whether you are in a turn or any other maneuver.

— Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF.

The most important thing to a fighter pilot is speed; the faster an aircraft is moving when he spots an enemy aircraft, the sooner he will be able to take the bounce and get to the Hun. If you have any advantage on him, keep it and use it. When attacking, plan to overshoot him if possible, hold fire until within range, then shoot and clobber him down to the last instant before breaking away. It's like sneaking up behind someone and hitting them with a baseball bat.

— Duane W. Beeson, P-51 pilot, 4th Fighter Group.

I hope those help...

I don't have an Eldar fleet but I have played against them several times.

Things you can't do.

Don't go in for a head on pass with the enemy, their numbers and dice will kill you.
Hang around for a close in brawl. Your lack of numbers will leave you with planes that move early in the move sequence and these will attract enemy planes like gamers to a GW sale.

So what to do.
You need to play for time. Eldar are always an annoying race. you need to use your superior movement to move in ways that the enemy can't. Orks approaching ahead, power dive down and go under to orks then climb up again. Ork planes climb like arthritic mouse up a greased pole.

You need to spend the forst 3-4 turns of the game breaking up the enemy formation and getting them scattered all over the place then you can work on getting kills of 1-2 planes.

unusually Eldar have some of the toughest planes with their 5+ save. Noone else gets that.

If at all possible attack the enemy from behind not the side. If you get behind them you get to shoot them during the shooting phase and then again at the start of next turn before they get to move away. After making an attack plan to break away because the enemy will be planning to position planes to cover where you need to be.

Plan you turn sequence of your planes. Which one of you planes will you move first? Pick a plane and move it so that the enemy might have a chance of getting a shot at it. the have your other planes lined up to cover that one and each other.

Make use of the pilot skill roll rules. As an Eldar you are selling yourself short if you don't play with the skill rolls becase the Eldar planes have high skilled pilots factored into their points costs.

Don't worry about retun fire from tau defensive turrets, they are only damage 6 so not very likely to get any damage at all, compared to the dice you put out with the shiruken cannons.

if you have tactica Imperialis there is a very nice weapon fit for the fighter bomber (the one that's not the night wing) that uses star cannons, very good for air combat.

The first thing you need to realize is that the Nightwing is an interceptor, and somewhat lacks punch.

GET TACTICA AERONAUTICA!!!

The rules for the Phoenix will turn your phoenix into an air-superiority fighter, and quite capable of tearing up enemy bombers and fighters.

First piece of advice, do not close on the enemy at max speed, instead, let them close on you, then powerdive and boost. You want the enemy to make the first aggressive action. Do not let them get the chance to shoot!

I have both books, but we're kinda just going through normal rules first and working our way up. I just haven't had a chance to play again. We've been really busy with all sorts of things popping up in life, and a 40k gang getting together at the office. D=

I've been trying to be slow though, and it hasn't been working well. Sad... I like my Nightwings. =p I only have 2 pheonix's.