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 Dark Eldar, Ravens and Razorwings...oh my!
Easy E
Posted: Jan 21 2008, 05:03 PM


Double Ace


Group: Admin
Posts: 748
Member No.: 238
Joined: 21-January 08



So, what can be done to make the Dark Eldar in AI.

I guess we better start with the basics. How would they play? They have a raider nature, so they would need good speed and manueverability. In 40k they are fast and fragile. The same might apply for AI.

In addition, they like to attack by surprise, sow terror, and then disappear again. This ties in with the ideals of a raiding force.

What do you think?


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Darnok
Posted: Jan 22 2008, 04:27 PM


Orkimedes


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I don't think we need Dark Eldar in AI.

They should be quite similar to Craftworld Eldar, which already give you a fast, hard-hitting force to play with. With the upgrades from Tactica Aeronautica, especially the Webway Protal, you can stress the raider aspect even more. So all in all I think it comes down to conversions, which then use the Eldar list for gaming purposes.

Other than that, I'm all for mor diversity, and I would enjoy pictures of anything an enthusiastic DE player comes up with for AI.


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Easy E
Posted: Jan 26 2008, 12:31 PM


Double Ace


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You're right of course. Need is a strong word.

However, I think the Dark Eldar could offer a style of play different than straight Eldar could. Instead of fast and hard hitting, they would be fragile compared to CWE Eldar. For example, the Ravens are relatively small compared to a Nightwing. Perhaps they would play more like a Hellblade (The smaller Chaos Fighter).

In addition, the Dark Eldar make use of Mimic Engine technology in BFG. Perhaps thye could use something similar in AI.


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Vinz D.
Posted: Jan 29 2008, 09:36 AM


Cone Head


Group: Pilots
Posts: 105
Member No.: 35
Joined: 30-December 06



I too think that Dark Eldar could provide a different style of play from Eldar. As mentioned, the use mimic engines in Battlefleet Gothic and they don't use the same rules as Craftworld Eldar in that game. In the end, the two races have been apart from one another for quite some time, so even while they do share their similarities (raiding forces, 'fast-in-fast-out' tactics, that sort of stuff) they most certainly don't play the same game.

Greetz


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Borak Says - Pearls of wisdom from the Chaos Lord
"Eagles may soar high, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"
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Easy E
Posted: Feb 29 2008, 11:12 PM


Double Ace


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Perhaps the Chaos aircraft would work well as proxies for the Raven and Nightwing?

Using that as a base we could tack on some special rules for Mimic Engines, Shadow Fields, and terror/horrorfex bombs?


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Esphareph
Posted: Mar 1 2008, 12:08 AM


Ground Crew


Group: Pilots
Posts: 4
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Joined: 25-February 08



as i've said to my local WH40k DE player: forget the DE flights, they loose. just take the phoenix (void dragon) and the night wing, convert the weapons (eg. shuriken to splinter) and your fine huh.gif
but i can't say much about AI DEs...


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Armoured tanks of mass destruction
killers in the east
rats who dares to stand before us
feel our guns go live

Thousands of tons of armour and guns
making it's way through the sand
our panzer battalion is back for revenge
artillery sweeping the land

First strike is ours no mercy is shown
there's rivers of blood in our track
breaking their lines with our tanks
infantry watching our back
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Easy E
Posted: Aug 8 2008, 05:28 PM


Double Ace


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Joined: 21-January 08



The Raiders supplement in the new Firebase on Warseer has a nice section in the back about making Ravens and Razorwings. Plus some of their ideas about the different DE aircraft could be incorporated into AI.


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Zelnik
Posted: Jun 23 2011, 04:07 PM


Sprog


Group: Pilots
Posts: 20
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Joined: 22-June 11



In all honesty, I am torn. The razorwing and raven are effectively analogues to the Nightwing and Phoenix.

If I wanted the DE to be in this game, I would want them to function differently from the other races. I would have them focus on medium range and long range, giving them strange and creepy rules for short range as a response.

while we do not NEED DE in AI, it would be fun to make new rules for them.
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Zelnik
Posted: Jun 27 2011, 12:17 PM


Sprog


Group: Pilots
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Alright folks, I actually got a chance to hold a Razorwing in my hands for the first time.


It is MUCH different then its nightwing counterpart, and just looking at the rules for the voidraven shows that it does not carry the same role as the phoenix.

Here are my suggested rules.

Razorwing: Variant 1 20 pts
Hits:1
Max speed:9
Min speed:2
Max alt:9
thrust:3
Manuverability: very high

Armament:
Twin linked splinter rifles: 0-2-4 6+damage 6 ammo
Twin Dark lances: 0-2-2 2+damage 4 ammo ground attack 6+ extra damage
Missile launcher: 2-2-2 3+ damage 2 ammo, ground attack

Razorwing variant 2
Spinter Cannon: 2-4-6 5+ damage 4 ammo
Twin Disintigrators: 0-2-4 4+damage 4 ammo
Missile launcher: 2-2-2 2 ammmo, 3+ damage, ground attack

Voidraven 25 pts + 5 for extra armament.
Hits:2
Max speed: 7
Min speed:2
Max alt:9
thrust.2
Manuverability: very high

Armament:
Twin Void Lances 2-2-2 4 ammo 2+ damage, ground attack extra damage 5+
Void Mine: 0-0-1. 3 ammo. Ground attack, 2+ damage 4+ extra damage, rear attack

May be equipped with:
Missile launcher: 2-2-2, 2 ammo, 3+ damage, ground attack.

Void mines follow the rules for bomb creep.

All dark eldar craft have a 5+ Shadowfield save against damage, this functions the same way as an eldar holofield save

As you can see, there is a heavy focus on ground attack, with their interceptor fighter still retaining ground attack capacity. This is right out of the dark eldar book, and with the way I built it, makes for one heck of an interesting fighter wing. Delicate, but hell to anything on the ground.
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Easy E
Posted: Jun 30 2011, 05:07 PM


Double Ace


Group: Admin
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Joined: 21-January 08



I think the Shadow field should work different than the Eldar holo-field, but I'm not familiar with how it works in the new codex.

I had the Shadow field always make the range of the attack one level higher, so:

Short= Medium
Medium=Long
Long= Out of range


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Zelnik
Posted: Jun 30 2011, 06:09 PM


Sprog


Group: Pilots
Posts: 20
Member No.: 779
Joined: 22-June 11



That would be a great idea, if not for one horrible little detail..

The imperial navy and chaos would tear them to tiny tiny bits, now that their greatest weakness has been completely removed smile.gif

The holofield save is a call to battlefleet gothic, and it really should stay the same for simplicitys sake
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Easy E
Posted: Jul 15 2011, 04:22 PM


Double Ace


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Joined: 21-January 08



Good point, what if it reduced incoming firepower by 1 to a minimum of 1?

So, firepower 4 would be 3, 2 would be 1, and 1 would be 1?

That way, the DE could be fragile, but still resist decent amounts of inbound firepower?


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n43digi
Posted: Jul 15 2011, 06:45 PM


Cone Head


Group: Pilots
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Joined: 28-June 08



Nice
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Zelnik
Posted: Jul 29 2011, 01:43 PM


Sprog


Group: Pilots
Posts: 20
Member No.: 779
Joined: 22-June 11



Simplicity, my friends. Simplicity in the rules makes this game great. Toying with new rules does nothing to make the game better without extensive testing. The good old 5+ save is just fine.

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Zelnik
Posted: Aug 3 2011, 01:17 PM


Sprog


Group: Pilots
Posts: 20
Member No.: 779
Joined: 22-June 11



I have a pretty decent dialogue with forgeworld, and I sent the posted rules over to them, the nice man agreed to send it to the rulesmakers!
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Easy E
Posted: Aug 5 2011, 03:26 PM


Double Ace


Group: Admin
Posts: 748
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Joined: 21-January 08



Does that mean there is still some AI development going on!?!


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Zelnik
Posted: Aug 7 2011, 12:16 AM


Sprog


Group: Pilots
Posts: 20
Member No.: 779
Joined: 22-June 11



Hell if I know. If you want more AI development, you guys need to go out and spread the hobby. this means buying miniatures (not knock offs) and getting your friends to do the same.
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Easy E
Posted: Aug 7 2011, 10:27 PM


Double Ace


Group: Admin
Posts: 748
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Joined: 21-January 08



Word! That's why the AI campaign gives points for buying stuff!

I'm a pretty big offended when it comes to NOT buying stuff. I will need to rectify that.



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Easy E
Posted: Dec 29 2011, 02:05 PM


Double Ace


Group: Admin
Posts: 748
Member No.: 238
Joined: 21-January 08



A stunningly simple idea for the Shadowfield- The aircraft is always under the rules of Nightfight.

There could be additional rules that the first hit (NOT damaging hit) eliminates the Shadowfield.


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gatorfan83
Posted: Dec 30 2011, 12:00 PM


Ground Crew


Group: Pilots
Posts: 8
Member No.: 573
Joined: 1-August 08



Im not sure that splinter cannons should be long range, since it fires toxic darts. dark elder should also get some sort of stealth abillity.
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