Title: The Hell Talon
Description: Most Expensive Bomber
orangesm - April 22, 2007 07:34 AM (GMT)
Alright so looking at the Hell Talon today I realized that it has to purchase its bombs load to be an effective bomber, otherwise it is a heavy fighter. I do not think it makes it a very effective bomber if it has to purchase its bombs.
mageboltrat - April 22, 2007 08:06 AM (GMT)
If this wasn't the case... Chaos players would either have to use entirely Hellblades or have Helltalons that were over priced if they didn't have to do a ground attack. This is a good thing.
orangesm - August 5, 2007 01:04 AM (GMT)
Possible change. It is my understanding that the 40k Talon has a Havoc Missile Launcher and no Autocannons. I think this is something that may need correcting overall and would be an easy change. Thoughts?
Cry of the Wind - August 5, 2007 04:23 AM (GMT)
It should have the same weapons that it has in 40k. The bombs should probably be included (after all it seems to be the point in taking one). The only problem with this is that Havoc Launchers wouldn't be very useful in a dogfight while the autocannons give it something to play with. By removing the autocannons it becomes a dedicated bomber and not really a fighter-bomber anymore as it will only have Lascannons as defence. Chaos don't need a dedicated bomber now with the release of the Harbringer but could still use the heavy fighter that the Hell Talon is now.
Maybe make a distinction between the heavy fighter variant in the book as it is with no bomb option but increased autocannon firepower to T-Bolt levels (bomb space filled with more autocannons) and a dedicated bomber version with the bombs as standard and no autocannons, maybe with the Havocs added as additonal ground attack weapon like 3-2-0 6+ Ground Attack.
stokemeaklipper - September 17, 2010 08:19 PM (GMT)
while we are talking about the talon - i was wondering, why does it need a crew of three? what are they there for?
Easy E - September 22, 2010 12:30 PM (GMT)
I can't say for sure, but I'm going to guess the following:
1 Weapons Officer
orangesm - September 26, 2010 11:15 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (stokemeaklipper @ Sep 17 2010, 03:19 PM)|
| while we are talking about the talon |
Sorry, found it funny that re-opening a 3 year old discussion begins with the above.
Easy E gave a fair guess at the crew.
I would argue that during combat both the secondary crew members are weapons/systems operators. The Hell Talon might also have systems that a Hell Blade does not and so a Talon's crew could operate as battle managers coordinating the movements of flights of Blades.
stokemeaklipper - September 27, 2010 06:25 PM (GMT)
haha, yea sorry for the necroposting. but hey, i got my question answered :)
vedalslayer - October 3, 2010 02:59 PM (GMT)
in the background for my lads, i'm kind of going for the Helltalon being a 'command and control' fighter. think the Russians do something simular with their Mig 31 fighters. they tell the other fighters what to do due to more powerful radar systems.
stokemeaklipper - October 3, 2010 04:46 PM (GMT)
like a miniture vigilant? managing/assigning targets to the hellblades.
moridin - December 14, 2010 08:51 PM (GMT)
I've always wondered why the Talon can't take air-to-air missiles as an upgrade. It's meant to be a heavy fighter/bomber destroyer after all. In the new short story Apostle's Creed they have them occasionally.
PS sorry if this counts as thredomancy :P
Biggles - December 15, 2010 09:29 PM (GMT)
The Hell Talon is a bomber, rather than a fighter, I saw it as a penetration bomber more like the F111 or equivalent Soviet designs. My reading of double Eagle is that the Talons attacked with Bombs first and then use their guns as defence.
It is interesting that the different authors seem to draw inspiration from slightly different historical periods. Dan Abnett is firmly in the 40k = WW2 where as the Apostle Creed story sounds somewhat like Vietnam. Especially the part about attacking the missile defence stations of the chaos carrier sub.
I found the idea of a carrier sub rather cool and very funny at the same time. How do you get a submarine to a planet that you want to invade? Landing something like that would be a big undertaking. But then building the land carriers from Double Eagle would have taken a lot of resources as well.
Easy E - December 16, 2010 12:51 AM (GMT)
A carrier sub? Couple that with the Argonautica of the Bastion World's book Blood and Steel and it sounds like 40K is getting some naval elements.
Biggles - December 17, 2010 05:32 AM (GMT)
Yes, there are some new situations and weapons that are showing up in the 40k universe as other authors write material.
One thing I never understood about Dan Abnett's stories is the wider context of the war.
Take Double Eagle.
The planet is Imperial but some chaos lords have infiltrated part of the planet and turned it against the imperial government. (I can buy this bit)
The Chaos "expert" airforce arrives, presumably by space craft and if it's by freighter they would have warship escorts. Why the warships didn't bombard the Imperial airbases, hives and key manufactorums I don't know. Then the Chaos fleet leaves and the Imperial navy arrives. Now even if the planetary aircraft are arriving by freighter the would have warships as escorts. Why these warships can't bombard the chaos aligned hives and scan for the mass carriers (they are 1 Kilometre long and would give off EM radiation like nothing) and then launch missiles or lance attacks at the carriers.
Same for the use of large scale water bourne combat vessels. You would not just need an Aegis style cruiser, but one that can defend against orbital bombardment by space based combat vessels.
moridin - December 19, 2010 09:11 PM (GMT)
By playing gothic you get the impression that risking a warship in low orbit for bombardment purposes is something rarely undertaken. Almost every world has some form of low orbital defence. Especially a hive world like that in double eagle. More importantly it would make for a pretty boring novel :P
The AAA supression mission the Apostles undertake at the end of Apostle's Creed gives a bit more insight into Chaos ground defenses. It would also make a pretty awesome scenario for a campaign.
Biggles - December 23, 2010 06:30 AM (GMT)
I think Dan Abnett writes a good novel with excellent descriptions of the tight focus area of the novel.
It's the wider focus of his novels that don't make much sense to me.
Personally I like the idea of low orbital weapons platforms impacting the AI game. Why would all flak have to be from below. An orbital satelite could sit in orbit and scan for aitcraft and then attack them with missiles or energy weapons.
Could make for a cool scenario. Attack missions at altitude 9.
Easy E - December 23, 2010 12:53 PM (GMT)
Using a special anti-satellite missile mounted to the craft, move to altitude 9, then fire.